I’ve never tried - is it impossible to build a traditional poly-resin board with the same quantity of resin as an epoxy-resin board? (if so, why?)
Or is it just traditional to be wasteful, because that’s what people do with cheap resources?
Our municipality here in Santa Barbara has banned Styrofoam containers for use or sale due the non recycle capabilities. similar to this article... our The State Rep. Pedro Nava is a Santa Barbara resident.
http://www.nrn.com/landingPage.aspx?menu_id=1546&coll_id=718&id=363984
I would have thought otherwise, but I guess not.
Can anyone explain this?
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There are two types of polystyrene foam: EPS and XPS
and as far as I know styrofoam=XPS
XPS is not recyclable
As far as I can tell most the meat trays here are XPS, and they have a recycle “triangle” on the bottom w/a ‘6’ (Edit - 6/4/09) and it says ‘ps’ (I checked last night.) if I correctly remember from last night .
They certainly are not beads, and have the same “bubble” consistency as the XPS sheets I made some boards from (Sadly, w/all the tricks I tried to employ, save piercing the “skin” w/tiny holes, the did get some blister/bubbling.)
Maybe some changes have been made???
Polylactic Acid. PLA. Derived from corn and degrades rapidly even in a compost pile. It is the material a lot of people are talking about in regard to packaging. This has got to be done. Polystyrene and paper products need to be replaced for this purpose and PLA is generally being seen as the key. PLA is primarily been popularized by the company Natureworks, a major suppler.
Now I am certainly a promoter of polystyrene for our use. I certainly think that for our product it offers the best balance of performance, durability and user friendliness of the core materials available. Always remember, packaging is packaging and surfboards are surfboards. The way we make our industry more eco is through reduction of waste and product durability. Those are our keys. PLA for surfboards or any durable product is not applicable.
Your right to a degree. Landfills are a big logistical problem because of the amount of waste our society produces. This makes the problem of what to do with it all a nightmare. So space for trash is a problem. The other issue which is much less of one are pollutants leaching into groundwater from landfills. What Taylor stated is correct about landfills not allowing for the degradation of waste and the reason for this is that it protects ground water. But it also aserbates the logisical problem of where to put it all. PLA can certainly be one solution … part of one because packaging is the major guilt party. Paper products in general are another. Electronic media should be a boon for this… eventually. That’s changing now. For all the talk about plastics being the big waste issue, paper is still 75% of landfill waste and as Taylor correctly stated, paper doesn’t degrade in landfills. Landfills are designed this way.
I’m not trying to discourage using wood or eps, more so though some of the disillusionment of sustainability. Coming from an area with fairly progressive recycling efforts, as well as major landfill problems, some of these issues are on our front burner. The Styrofoam ban here is mainly due to the trash problem with it, and the pollution from beads flying around in the wind and ending up on the beach. I think the manufacturers will recycle eps but not our recycling facilities. I’m not sure why though.
It’s ironic being a woodworker and realizing that our over use has been part of the problem, but also take pride in proper care in using it. It’s a delicate balance, one in which I have great respect.
has anyone mentioned bamboo yet?
some species grow up to 3 feet a day, and in some places it is considered a weed.
tough, lighter than some timbers, quick growing, has great flex characteristics, comes in cloth form made from the fibres, what more could you ask for?
PAPER!!! Greg - I worked in the paper industry for a while, and what drive me crazy is, I know you can recycle pretty much every funked up scrape you can find… Those signs that say: “No paper towels, etc…” AAAHHHH!!! It gets cooked and screened, and well, paper pulp is paper pulp. We use to sell full on wax impregnated scrapes, and everything else to China.
Forgot about the ground water thing… Yes, that is the reason - modern land fills are like sealed tombs.
I have to agree with most here that the materials used in the board are almost secondary to it’s expected life-span. A dense poly blank with a 6/6/6 glassjob and nice sanded gloss will last decades. It’s not the most friendly materials to our environment, but with the mindset of durability built into it, it’s not horrible either. The problem is when the mindset is that of superlight foam with a thin 4/4/4 sanded polish board is the industry standard. It’s disposable by it’s very nature.
You get progressively better durability as you explore different materials. EPS/epoxy 6/6/6 is more durable than Poly/PU 6/6/6 and a HWS with a 6/6 glassjob is more durable than an EPS board. Then you get into solid wood boards. It’s hard to compare apples to apples but it may be an interesting angle for your article to start with a baseline board and have it built in a variety of materials/methods and explore each one individually for what it has to offer. Obviously, you’re widest appeal is going to be in a performance shortboard with as light a weight as possible. In this context, it would be cool to see ASJ have custom built, a performance shortboard in PU 4/4/4, EPS/Epoxy 4/6/4, wood-skinned EPS 4,4/2,4, hollow wood board (with light weight in mind) and evaluate them all in performance, durability, etc.
There are alternatives out there now which are pretty dialed in, are widely available, easy to build and offer as good, if not better performance characteristics than a standard poly board.
Bamboo might be a fast growing crop, but I dont think there are any bamboo forests on American soil. Its mainly a SE Asia crop. This requires the gross polluting ocean freight to import, so I wonder how green it really is. The best option is to use as local a forest as possible that is managed for sustainable yield.
Re: The best option is to use as local a forest as possible that is managed for sustainable yield.
Driftwood…It’s right there on the beach, go get it…Big, old, clear driftwood…Dream big…
I totally agree big daddy, i was trying to focus on the positives and had thought about mentioning your point but retracted, great for SE Asian board builders though hey!
HEMP! It grows everywhere, there are farms in Canada, Germany, France, China, Belgium, Netherlands, …
The industrial variety grow to 4m (13ft) in one year and gets harvested. There is no need from chemical (strong plant), no need to dig weed, hemp grow fast and close.
The seeds are good food! The oil is good for biofuels! The fibres are very long and strong! In history always used for sails, ropes and clothing all over the world.
I very much agree with your sentiment to use local wood from sustainably managed forests. Here’s a bit more about the process of making bamboo veneer:
The bamboo itself is a fairly sustainable tree. Fast growing, easy to replant, low
maintenacne, etc. The problem is more with the overall carbon footprint involved in
getting the tree to market as a veneered plank.
After the bamboo is harvested, the main stems, called culms, are sorted and graded and
then cut into thin slats. The slats are then boiled in a concoction of water, hydrogen
peroxide and borate to remove pests and mildew.
The slats are next kiln dried for several days to bring the moisture content down to
around 6-9 percent. Most of the Asian kilns are fired by burning the scrap wood putting
off smoke.
Next the slats are laminated in large presses using various adhesives, depending on the
manufacturer. There are standards for the maximum amount of formaldehyde allowed to
outgas in the final product by the adhesive, but that just indicates that it is a
potential problem.
Wood is often caramelized to produce richer hues or often the wood is dyed, but that
isn’t always the case.
Lastly, these panels are almost entirely constructed in Asia so you also have the
footprint of the container ship.
The carbon footprint of the containers is apparently much worse then most may realize. This link goes to an article that appeared in the Guardian a few weeks back that had the followoing quote:
Confidential data from maritime industry insiders based on engine size and the quality of fuel typically used by ships and cars shows that just 15 of the world’s biggest ships may now emit as much pollution as all the world’s 760m cars.
Can’t say I can verify the articles contents but it sure changes the perspective if this is even close to accurate.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/apr/09/shipping-pollution
I’m wanting to hear more about eco-boards ( great subject) but to follow through on the ships and pollution, ship traffic in the Santa Barbara channel is the #1 source of air pollution in Santa barbara County.
I lived in Venice Italy for a number of years. I lived right next to the “arsenale” (Arsenal) which is where they constructed the Venetian fleet upon which the fortunes of Venice were built. It is now empty and dormant. I always thought that they should devote the facilities to R+D of sailing container ships. Then, when the petroleum runs out (as it will), they would be so advanced in sail transport they would again establish their long gone empire.
I throw the idea out to my students as well. “You want to be a billionaire? Develop a fleet of sailing container ships.”
Lonely tyrant- very interesting insight on the industrial processes involved in bamboo products. Sometimes it seems there are no green solutions!
I’ve heard that hybrid cars will be as short lived as petrol cars because of the limited quantities of the minerals necessary to make the batteries.