I’m still around occasionally, in the archives around along time actually! Not so outspoken these days. Not real enthused about gossiping but surfing and shaping steadily. Glad summers over and schools back in session. Glad i finally have a Fish that Rips. Surprized you care!

Of course I care! I always enjoyed reading your insights about history & design. I think your were usually dead on.

You’re in Hawaii right?

Thanks, I live and surf San Diego with my teenage sons. Was a young child in Oahu, but moved here many years ago. I’ll try to be more involved, but things have changed. I’m kind of down on the whole longboarder scene right now and have negative vibes about the whole deal. I was a big part of it around here competitively, but now i see it from a shortborders view again, and it isn’t pretty. This is something i ponder alot and actually avoid longboarder spots that i used to basically dominate. Partly disappointed in my decision in '86 to go longboard with the revival, it was exciting at the time and many contest finals. But, the whole trifin 9’long/shortboard has brought out a lot of hate and aggression at popular spots, that i really see better as a shortboarder. So i avoid it and resent it’s existance which is mainly based on greed and wave-hogging.) Although i do see it’s decline as more middle-age surfers are getting on hybrids and now long fish’s. I am guilty myself of wave greed and aggressive behavior, but after seeing a 20 yr. old punch a 45yr. old longborder in the nose last week, i now see the total lack of respect at spots that are overrun by longboarders and surf schools. Whoever reads this, i don’t mean direct disrespect, just might ask yourself “why am i really riding this 9’2”? Is it to steal every stinking set wave? Cause now places like Pipes, Swami’s, Malibu, Cardiff Reef, La Jolla Shores, are just very disappointing and kooked out. When did the rules change anyway? How can we put Good Karma back into Surfing…Anyway, just my 2 cents. Have at it longboard clubs!

surfhungry – glad you are back – i agree with mike – your comments always seemed dead on and this time was no different – you paddle out at malibu etc and see 140lb people on 11’ boards taking every single wave – aggro people never even hesitating to see if others are on the wave – kinda sucks – i would prefer a not so perfect waves with really cool people any day – even in uncrowded spots on the east coast it seems like some people feel like it is the thing to do or cool to “vibe” others – insanity really – so on a positive note, how is that fish treating you? are you basically either a fish rider or a noserider? still wishing i could get one of your noseriders!

It’s nice to meet you Surfhungry,

You live in a free market , competitive society. Your wave greed and theft analysis sounds like a socialist soup kitchen scheme to me. It reminds me of a lazy surfer I know of in Raglan who put up signs saying that everyone had to wait in line and that the person who had been waiting the longest owns the next wave. Some people like to catch a lot of waves. If you don’t like it go out and catch more yourself, but moaning on about longboarders is a waste of time.

I catch as many waves as I can, and I respect other people who do the same. It is fun to compete for waves, but if you handicap yourself in the wave catching stakes by riding a shortboard, then that’s your decision. You can’t blame others if you choose to ride a shortboard. Punching people out, fostering hatred and blaming longboarders is a waste of energy, and has nothing to do with good karma.

you sure are a pain in the ass, Roy. some folks like to ride shortboards for their performance characteristics. some of us choose to ride shorter boards at certain breaks because shorter boards allow us to feel the curves of the wave more. why go straight past a bowl section when you could carve the coping? If you’re a longboarder, please just share and remember that to give a wave once in a while is a noble, respectful, courteous act that would make the founders of this “sport” – the ancient polynesians – proud.

Frank, I share waves all the time, I have people dropping in on all sides. I don’t mind, I get into it. However, I do not like moaning, pontificating ‘one man per wave’ shortboarders. Go ahead and ride what you want, but quit moaning, it’s bad for you. In just about every old picture I have seen of Malibu, there are lots of riders on the same wave. I guess it doesn’t work for shortboarders because they need the wave completely clear to do tricks, but we longboarders like to share a wave! When someone drops in on me in front, I like to try and catch them up. When someone drops in behind, I give them room and hang on the shoulder!


You may choose to share waves, and I gotta salute you for that – but you are, by far, the minority in the surfing world. Longboarders included.


the broad viewkeenly asseses the realities like that kinda chess on star trek ,you know the one multi level?..I was saying to Bagman the other day way out side on the twelve footers, out there the waves from all points on the compass affect the line and timbre of th breaking wavesso that the waves become greater difficulty than the contemporary swell-peak curl-line two step at the classicly coveted spots,malobu ,swamis,rincon,and of course for roy , Raglan.

These waves at these spots for my criterion are two dimensional great places to develop a great number of wave rhythm moves like ups and downs as well as elongated trimming…the depth of performance has a ceiling some what like reading a map of the desert north east south west you get the points on the compass you have it just about sussed ot,even foothills and mountains are basicly easy and after mastering one board length as a medium the next length can be mastered in turnuntil each six inch incremental option has been explored and mastered…the evident truths are the biggest board gets in the earliet and the minimalist board the lastest…It doesnt take an intermediate technique rider much intelegence to realize the bigger dominant shapes are desireable especially in a crowd at a premium green stamps spot…

Enter the next dimensional reality...outside multiple directional swell spots the likly hood of taking waves on the head  increases 10 fold...the simplicity of the Easy to read one level chessboard spots are a safe haven for the easily confused....protected turns in the coasts of all this earth's continents are surfing friendly...surfers paradise wasnt named by mistake...noosa  raglan the entire california coast from point conception to cabo is a regular foots woderland with a swell...open coastlines with prevailing winds from adverse directions are the refuge...so three diminsional chess  these outside crossed up spots with reef islands under water magnifying   [i fell asleep] the swells and the pitch of the faces and travel of the running peaks making a great training ground for navigating 3 dimentional space.  The classic coves and bays that clean up swells to micro managed perfection are a great training ground for those conciously trying to simulate boarding the train to osaka in tokyo...bless the hearts of the crowd mentality entertaining themselves with an endless troughof mental slop to agrivate themselves and their contemporaries. Jstifications for ridig bigger boards in crowds boil down to a rich stock of self agrandizing  broth and over time this becomes less and less gratifying ,unless your appitite is based primarily on this level of the intelectual food chain....intelectually there is a higher form of feeding that makes yo feel grand that you created a challenge and gained a fulfilling success,the long glide-the short barel -the long barrel- the ride to he next life guard tower- catching the sunset from that unique perspective all your own-can eclipse daily life of the mundane....ambrose ...burning everyone because you can gets old even for the greedy,just watch they just stimulate someone else to be greedier and greedy-1 just get grumpy over time as they lose their greediest status


I have to remind myself maybe you are just into a world of your own. Maybe a result of riding the flat, sectiony, (shitty?) waves you say you ride. Go and share all you like, of those types. More fun to you and the Gidget era, ride straight, “party-wave” mentality. But you are in the minority, and oh yeah I’m expecting one of your quick and oh so smug and smart retorts. Most modern surfers in the majority prefer riding performance waves (tight pockets, not slop) one at a time with no one dangerously cutting their path off. Then afterwards some actually can feel even better by giving waves to others and share in their stoke with a hoot. It’s much more satisfying to get a good one, then watch another surfer get and enjoy a good one. Smiles all around! Everybody goes in enjoying their day. But not when a selfish hog tries to grab 'em all. Here’s a good rule of thumb: count the number of set waves per hour, divide by the crowd, and that’s your fair share. Sure, take a spare if nobody else can get to it, but be a pig and suffer. I say, if someone butts into line ahead of me at the desert bar, selfishly grabbing seconds of desert before I get my first just by virtue of them having brought a longer fork, I’m gonna have something to say about it! It was said by someone that longboarders must avoid using their extra length as bludgeons. Let that

sink in. Share a set wave. Share a smile. Think of helping raise the spirits of those strangers around you, not just yourself.

Well, anyways, i might say the longboard/shortboard/kneeboard/kayaker/sponger/swimmer close quarters relationship is quite possibly similar to tossing a cat, a dog, a rat, a snake, and a bird in the same cage (or same wave peak anyways).

Allow me another thing before the more vocal forum elders start trippin’. I ‘am’ still longboarding. Just won a longboard contest in june. Love longboard riding at uncrowded mushy waves. And I apprieciate skilled seasoned wave riders of all boardsizes who use skill instead of stealing to dominate… I Ride ‘ALL’ sizes!.. but…

it’s the ugly attitude, potbellied, hang around in the parking lot smoking, groups of ‘losers in life’ but ‘safe in numbers’ longboard club flunky’s of every size and shape, clogging the lineup like lobster trap bouys, reassuring their existance at the ‘same surfspot’ dayafter day by befriending other fellow losers(kooks, boneheads that have nothing better to do but hang out) in a group, clan, gang, or for that matter ‘a weekend kook encounter group’.

My surfing rules never changed from the way i learned them in the late sixties, "man farthest out, first up, closest to the curl, up and riding, has wave possession. If you decide to take the wave possession from me(dropping-in), it’s like running a stop sign in front of me at an intersection. Or pulling out in front of fast moving traffic to cross the intersection without looking!!! To a highly skilled surfer that is an INSULT!

Some aggressive types like to fight, and they consider that,‘stealing their wave’. Unfortunately for the 45 yr. old mentioned way above he relieved a highly skilled shortboarder of his rightful wave, dinging the kid’s brand new RUSTY (read $495.) and got punched in the nose at the shower stall for it, it was a longtime coming…

You can believe there were further words of malice from the shortboard clan throughout the week…

You might also lump youthful zeal, physically fit, buck-wild aggressive, and adrenaline pumped into my term ‘shortboard clan’…The ‘rippers’ as my 18 yr. old would say.

Somehow, sometime, that unspoken rule fell to sh@t at many primary ‘unlocalized’ spots. Funny thing, their the same spots high performance longboarders have access too!!! You know, large parkinglot, bathrooms, clans of locals that don’t live at the beach, bitter, don’t have wives or girlfriends, don’t have manners…

Longboarding actually started out on the wrong foot…

In '85, in So. California anyway the few longboarders were hated and ridiculed. The longboard part of contests were a joke, an easy extra trophy! They then started dominating and multipling after around '91 at easy access beachs, then the clubs popped up, more easy trophys, surf schools unloaded into the lineup(completely clueless kooks), surf school teachers are clueless low skilled and don’t promote ‘surfing rules of etiquete’ and now we have idiots on longboards!!!

There you have it , the surfing world as told by Surfhungry the unknown, protector of the truth. Now i got to get back to kissing my bosses ass, sucking up to my wife,and preparing for the forthcoming eloqent philisophical ponderings of internet soothsayers (plus i got to act like i am working,so this probably doesnt emulate the queens english, sorry Ambrose.)

Have i said before that i like swaylocks?

As Mike Paler said, is nice to read you again.

By the way, Mike, i want one of those T-shirts!

Have a nice weekend!

The Fish is unbelievable, they had inherant design downfalls in the 70’s probably cause Lis was a kneeboarder and he rode like 4’10’s to 5’6"s and such. Standing up on one had different leverage expecially at longer lengths say 5’11".

We rode them in Point Loma/OB/Big Rock alot from '71 to '76, then they evolved to swallowtail hybrids in backyards throughout San Diego. The classic Lis Fis would not bottom turn square off the bottom and backside was rough at best. Now by toe-ing in the keels an 1/8" and angleing out 5-6% with concaves on bottom, slight vee off tips. The fish has substantial backside and bottomturning ability. It still looks like a lis/skip fry outline but is at a higher performance level. Guys are now ripping on these shapes, Local Shapers are tuning them every week, and i cant see riding anything else in under 8 ft faces!!! Because the only limits on Fishs are the kooks on longboards, dropping in on the shoulder of waves previously unmakeable by other boards of lesser thrust. “Dude I didn’t think you were gonna make that section” is the typical surprized response from guys that pretend their sorry for burning you. Let the games begin…

Some days I love my longboards because I’m big and the waves are small. Other days I’m truly embarrassed to be lumped in with ‘longboarders’ in general. Give a wave, get a wave, make eye contact, and smile. That’s all it takes. I don’t take a longboard to the Lane because its rude. I don’t take one to Ocean Beach because its no fun. I don’t surf anywhere near surf schools because its frustrating…but I am addicted to my longboards not for the wave-stealing but for the trim, footwork, big turns, and little waves.

“The cows give milk, the chickens give eggs, and the pigs get slaughtered.”

I know it wasn’t meant to be funny, but the mental picture painted of the the parking lot club and “lobster bouys” did make me chuckle…

I’m pretty new here - Nice to meet ya Surfhungry!


dr.hungarian.same page same book .clear report…ambrose…about the physical truth

i never thought i would agree with surfhungry.

but, it’s not only the longboarders dropping in on the fish riders.

the surfer/primate hierarchy is breaking down, and “schooling” is now something that may result in jail time for the schoolor, not the schoolee.

I got no answers for this.

Two good things were said that are often in my mind…dude I didn’t think you were going to make that wave and the stop sign analogy.

I’m primarily known as a “longboarder” but the funny thing is I’ve always ridden different shapes and even sub six foot boards. Early morning sessions and under the radar, as the saying goes. In the spring, I received a 5’8 twin keel from Manuel Caro. This has become my main board, along with a 9’8 Nuuhiwa Tudor. It’s funny, when people see me at the beach, it’s always, “wow, you’re on a short board!”, when the truth ius I’ve always ridden one. When longboarding, 99% of the time I ride with no leash. It helps that the Nuuhiwa and my 60’s boards have no way to even attach a leash. I think the main problem is too many people use longboards to simply catch waves. Always with a leash and never any cross stepping or toes on the nose. This causes big problems. So does relying on the leash and shooting the board out at the end of a ride, regardless of board size and who might be paddling out in front of you.

The flip side is when a shortboarder decides to drop in on a longboarder simply because a longboard is being ridden. Some of the best surfers in my area ride longboards (the right way) and they don’t take kindly to this.

In short, you can’t paint everyone with the same brush simply because of board choice. Stupidity and greed will supersede board choice every time…

Thanks guys, i hear what your saying Dubstar, there was amazing Longboarding being done in San Diego County(that’s Imperial Beach to Trestles!) over the last 15 years from Steve Walden’s double helicopters to hang ten, to Dale Dobsons switch stance off the lips, Joey Hawkins reverse drop knee cutbacks, and then there’s Joel!!..

Actually there is nothing being done now that wasn’t already mastered in '91, now it’s boring, exept for guys just starting to do tricks think they are the sh*t!!.

*The importance of being a hotshot longboarder is LAUGHABLE compared to being successful in other sports.

*Fully sponsored top female pro’s LB’ers are basically barely riding at the level of competition we had in '89.(yes i said it).

*Corky Carroll and younger Nuuhiwa were doing all the hotdog tricks possible by '67 that are still done now.

*Every year a new crop of young longboarders think they rip because longboarding is so easy to do.

*Where-as shortboarding has been quite progressive in all areas.

*Longboarders only superiority/importance in the Surf Culture is they can look like a 12 pack humpty dumpty and still grunt into a wave.

*Easy trophys, easy to dominate, easy to master, easy to ride. B-O-R-I-N-G!!!

*And lastly Longboard Magazine is History, I predict within 18 months, because of the sad state of LB’ing, the interest in mid-size hybrids, some major retirements of shaper icons, and there is nothing to write or do cause it’s just re-hash and laughable surfing skills i already forgot about ten years ago!! Devon Howard left as editor to chase the phony 70’s retro sprout joke months ago!!

Benny1, I was embarrassed to be lumped into the Longboarder stereotype also, even at the highest levels of longboard riding performance, you are still just the king of the kooks for that day. I changed my m.o. years back and am much happier. The the deep dark truth in surfing culture is it has, and will always be subdivided, and there is no group hug between the different ways of riding the same wave, specifically between longboarders/shortboarders/boogieborders/and god forbid, kayakers!!

Shortboarding is by far on the top of the pecking order and they know it so does the Media and the Sponsors!!

A hardcore longboarder probably won’t even watch shortboarding on tv, and vise-versa is for damn sure.

There is glory in a well placed hang ten i realize that. But ‘only’ to another longboarder… Just some more ramblings from a reformed longboarder… Now tear me up ocean breatheran.

P.S. is this what you wanted Mike? haha It’s on now!