White Hot Foam bites the dust

surfding · November 21, 2010, 12:37pm

Everysurfer:

A little over 6 years ago when I started doing boards in XPS and EPS (other than PU) I was making them 1/8" thinner than someones standard PU.

However since the flotation was close to equal (after volume adjustments) there was no real advantage to doing than. When I would do a direct duplication of the board shape from PU to EPS: 24 Liters EPS verses 24 Liter PU there was less transition between surfing the two boards. The feedback’s were more positive I think because it gave an advantage to the surfer: (Paddle power and a Lighter livelier board than PU). The theory of adjusting volume to compensate flotation differentials I can understand however then what is the point of the added cost and a slower production rate by choosing this type of build? Plus really tuned surfers don’t like to vary rail volumes to much. It can throw you off. After the Train Wreck of the EPS/PU Tread we had going I when on to build more comparisons and had some really good feed back from Pros. However since the tread was locked I just quit posting.

I have a TEAM rider that has been a PRO surfer since his teens that is now in his 30’s and a full Surf Nazi we have done some extensive testing and model development since the Yellow PU - EPS tread. Rather than looking at companies products and service we just based our own research on materials and not vendors. Less political plus we wanted focus on surfing and board building.

We had a blast playing with the different materials. With the model creation going on during this same time it made for some real interesting data collection. Our testing grounds were “LOWERS” (Trestles) down in San Clemente, California and “GREEN BUSH” Metawais INDO.

During our equipment exploration we found some interesting principles to apply to High Performance Surfing. My interest in EPS was reborn. By making such a large quiver of boards as we did:

10 x HPSBs shortboards all the same volume comparatively between the various models we worked on. The only difference was the rocker changes. If we made a rocker change in a PU a EPS version was made. We explored various rail volumes and profiles. The Journey was so cool and informative. The Data we were gathering was thought provoking and coming at a us like a locomotive. Without boring you with the details we found that EPS is a must for one’s quiver. Lowers on a EPS step-down HPSB is crazy fun if you like surfing. Step-downs are new category of boards that are in currently in vogue at the moment. Center point forward, hidden volume, increased outline. I have a formula to adjust the volume on these step-downs that has worked every time we have applied it. Getting back to the EPS material as the core. These Step-downs are a perfect match for the lighter build. We used RR Epoxy KK and Molded EPS (We used Marko and US both). Now that we have the formula worked out on the shape for 2011 we are also going to wrap it in a “SPACE SUIT”. The core is a combination of Materials thrown in a Vacuum bag with some special fabrics. We are approaching this whole thing like a good set of golf clubs were you need more than one board.

To answer you original question:

**For the EPS vs. Poly, Do you change anything in the shape to
compensate? Thinner or narrower for one over the other? Or are the
conditions to be ridden in the compensation? **

I make EPS boards exactly the same shape as for a PU. The key is to let the material speak for it’s self and yes conditions are the key factor when choosing what board to ride. Show up to Lowers with two exact boards with material being the only difference and choose your ride base on the current conditions.**
**

In my limited comparisons, EPS rides higher in the water. Makes EPS
paddle in flat water faster, but sometimes gravity is helpful in pulling
a little more mass of the PU down the wave face.

Very true we find the same thing. The key is to play on those factors and use them to your advantage. In some conditions you want the inertia you get from PU to put you down the face. Other times to kind of free fall and float over the sections EPS is great for that.

Tom Resvan EPS LOWERS Session Stepdown:

Bruce,

“Sorry for the Hi-Jack”

Michael

“Surfding”

everysurfer · November 21, 2010, 12:49pm

Wow!

Thanks for the insight! Your boards look like they ride beautifully.

Surfding for “Shaper of the Year”!

surfding · November 21, 2010, 1:03pm

Here’s more R&D that was done since April:

everysurfer · November 21, 2010, 4:47pm

You should be proud of your riders and your accomplishments; giving them the equipment to get there. Where or what is Aladdin? I can’t find out anything about the magazine.

surfding · November 21, 2010, 6:56pm

Joe Foster is a Graphic Artist for Canvas by KATIN in Surfside California he is also a Profession Photographer. He makes Aladdin Covers of the different Pro surfers in our OC circle. It's kind of a inside Spoof we have going.

Tom Rezvan calls my boards genie in a bottle.

I build boards for the LOVE and intrige.

Good surfers to shape for help in the inovation and delevopement of the Shaping craft.

Making Retro's I done and can do however making a good HPSB and dialing the Rocker, Thickness Foil, Rail Profile and Bottom Contours and blending it to one Harmonious Flow is the future of Shaping as we know it. This is the difference between off the rack and custom. Custom will keep board building alive in California and the rest of the surfing world for that matter. Using the various materials are this even more interesting. I could dwell in the back in the day attitude or move forward and see how far we can push surfing. I think the Kids are surfing better and better and even some of the 40 year olds are shreading.

Surfding is at a whole different level today than I was a kid. If I can still be a part of this progression in some small feedble way and enjoy the stoke I will.

kind regards,

Surfding

DEADSHAPER · November 22, 2010, 12:46am

SD aka Mike...... now worries about the 'jacking' of this thread.

EPS - inertia - differential comparison of poly vs eps....... here is somethig to ponder.

While the inertia of an EPS board will feel less due to the overall distribution of weight compared to a PUPE, core, there exists a huge opportunity for creative designers to use strategic postioning and choices of weighting EPS (as well as PUPE for that matter) to achieve dynamic results.

I'vd done this many times since the 70's, and you would be amazed at the result(s) you can get in the difference from 1 to 6 oz's.

C YA

everysurfer · November 22, 2010, 2:20am

Wilson has been doing a Perimeter Weighting System on their tennis racquets. It gives stability on off center hits by adding weight at the three and nine o’clock position.

Interesting concept of adding a little lead tape at the rails.

surfding · November 22, 2010, 1:59pm

DS aka Bruce: Let me know where you put you weights and placement? How much?

That one area I haven’t played with yet. I know Stretch (Bill) does it with his Guns for Mavericks and Puerto.

Thanks,

Surfding

DEADSHAPER · November 22, 2010, 9:06pm

I started playing with this around 1970 by positioning them on the deck about 1" to 2" back form the nose. I pounded out lead fishing weights from 1 to 6 oz's and found the 2nd half my turns had longer arcs. This worked great for boards that felt a bit undergunned on macking days at Jalama, Razorblades or Rincon.

Later on I tried moving the weight concerntration back from the nose but kept the postion on the deck. What I term "pendulum effect" was considerably less as well as the ability to 'throw' a turn. It helps to think of it like a ball and chain... the longer the chain with the ball on the end of it and you really get a hurtling mass going along.

I then tried deck positioned assymetrical places for frontside and backside applications with various results.

Finally I decided to lower the center of gravity by placing the weight(s) under the bottom skin of the boards. This produced a noticeable sense of stability while still producing the lengthened arcs, increased inertia and subsequent momentum while hurtling down the line of hard to make sections...... like getting around the corner at Rincon to make it to the sea wall.

I'm sure Bill (Stretch) has his own specific applications that Fletcher and some of his other riders are finiding noteworthy.

I just kind of laugh when I have certain riders and/or customers that say they "can't feel" an EPS cored board because they are too light. As I previously suggested, the application of physics with this approach works both with PUPE and EPS. I did them with both, but the effects were more noticeable to me with the EPS cores because the construction weight is more evenly distributed throughout the skin of EPS boards versus PUPE's.

People could debate that a 2 lb. density is a 2lb density regardless of the type of core......... that the feel would be virtually the same. It is not. Just ride them, and you will know.

"Nothing is good nor bad, thinking merely makes it so"............ Shakespeare

surfding · November 25, 2010, 1:05pm

Mark:

This ones pretty funny:

everysurfer · November 25, 2010, 2:55pm

Rezzy!

The most interesting man in the World!

Dr. Ruth comes to him for advice.

He fired Donald Trump.

Barak Obama said, “Rezzy is our next stimulus package!”

DEADSHAPER · April 28, 2011, 1:51pm

Footnote:White Hot and Austin’s stuff is available thru US Blanks since they acquired both. They do not have blank schematics in their catalog however, and when I tried to Google the old WH catalog offering, it has been removed. I still have in my inventory half a dozen Harbor, Yater and Stewart 2 lb EPS from White Hot as well as some 2.5 lb 7’4"R (Rusty). The foam is/was really good but USB will be a very reliable source from now on. They can sled cut their EPS to any of the blanks they offer in PU.

kayu · May 2, 2011, 2:19pm

EPS is such a versatile material.....I like it weighted with wood , in certain places !

kayu · May 4, 2011, 6:22am

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