Bernie, thanks for posting the photo of Tiger. I met him when he was just sixteen, and did not own a surfboard of his own yet. I loaned him my board on many ocassions, at Sunset. That photo captures the comfortable ease he had in his own skin. That is how I remember him best. He and Kealoha, were part of some of my best memories of Hawaii, and my first winter on the North Shore.
And it seems like pretty simple steps like splitting the single fin into 2 fins to make a twin and then adding a 3rd fin and then splitting that into two fins to make a quad. Although these steps have
Some ideas off the top of my head.
ummm…what about turing the back rails into fins or something to that effect.
ummm…look at wakeboards fins on both ends of the bottom of the board.
maybe a pin tail board with the pin shaped the go down into the water, as well as the back rails. (after I wrote that, I just found this http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/boardroom-del-mar )
I’m thinking a finless surfcraft with about 70% of the hold in a turn that you would get from a finned surfboard. Slidey but not too slidey like those finless boards on youtube.
Its pretty much true. The parameters are defined, we know what works and why. Somewhere between Tom Wegeners Alaias and the craziest spacey board you can imagine, someone has tried it… Guys like Dane Purlee regularly shape and ride boards with scooped out ducts in the bottom to direct water under and out the back. Mickey Munoz made shortboards with channeled bottoms and fluted contours years ago to experience finless boards. I guess the fun is going on the trip ourselves, hence surfers rediscovering old designs and resurrecting old stuff previous generations discarded. We had boards with no fins, Pacific Homes Swastika model anyone? or maybe a Hot curl with a big old vee in the tail? Tom Blake put a nub fin on that old plank and we’ve used em ever since. They work.
Maybe handles on the deck will make a comeback? Someone will bring out a Bob Simmons slot bottom (Greg Noll probably already has!) or maybe a Bunker Sprekles model?
Its all good fun but not original…its all been done.
Everything will fall into some classification somewhere but that doesn’t mean they’ve re-invented the fin or even found something useful, just that they’ve found a basic concept that’s usually found in other domains. How many times do we see aeronautical concepts applied to surf fins.
Holes through the board are based on the Venturi effect from 1800, fins came with the fish etc… So I wouldn’t say “its all been done before” and that’s where progress has come to a halt, more that so much has already been copied from before and there’s been little original attempts to re-invent the performance of the modern fin.
Maybe it’s not possible to re-invent the fin as even with all the modern variations around, they are still a clear derivative of the basic 'foiled, flat plate triangular form extended from the rear of the hull with a similar degree of cant ’ ?
the more you think about that
the more it will make sense
all great surfers figured it out sooner or later
in their path to enlightenment
economy of motion
along with perfect positioning
no equipment will ever overcome
the lack of understanding of the core principles.
perhaps some types of oculus-based artificial reality training program
may be an answer
I’ve always wanted to try steerable fins, linked to a control system under your back foot…or perhaps with modern robotics, using heads up steering (where you look, the board aims). Also when I flew model aircraft as a kid, we got the things to turn a LOT harder/faster by having flaps on the wing that increased the wing’s lift when the board started to turn. Seems like something comparable could be done with a surfboard…or panels under the board that retract to direct water when turning (channels that get deeper and shallower on command). Who knows…
I do. But, I’m not telling !
Hi Keith, funny to see you write something that’s been going thru my head too, esp about the under foot controls. I also flew model aircraft but did a few years in the Aussie airforce too.
The standard Tom Blake fin is a stroke of luck in that it sticks out against the design of the craft, any simple shape will work, yet it works by subtle obliqueness of flow.
As surfing is a left side / right side positioning into the wave, then it would make sense to eliminate the centre fin and look at ‘something’ that’s under or along the rear rail on each side. It could be a simple vane or a complex module incorporated into the volume of the board, but it would need to have the same ‘subtle obliqueness’ as a flat fin.
The benefits of a rail control system would be that it’s in a more effective position to provide constant control. The steeper, the deeper the wave or turn the more invested into the wave is the system.
Flat fins have gone thru all the variations so rounding a corner here and adding a bit of rake isn’t a re-invention of any consequence, however a reinvention of the ‘control system’ is where advances in surfing will occur.
I remember when Bert Spitzer revealed his ported board, what a great step forward, but it was classed as a finless board, which it was but wasn’t. He wasn’t air lubricating like Morey, he was controlling the board thru the induction of water.
Iʻve spent a lot of the last decade riding a variety of single fin boards with an assortment of rockers in a nostalgic pursuit of yesterdayʻs fun. In the process Iʻve learned that modern boards are the way they are because they have higher performance. Placing the fins out along the rail gives greater control and power than a single. You can have minimal rocker for some waves, but thereʻs a point where you either have too little or too much.
I think the number of fins, placement and size of the fins will be an area we can mess with to find new combinations that may take the performance higher, or the fun level higher. Iʻm thinking smaller fins, maybe more than 4 and placed in combinations that are further in, further up on boards that are longer than the standard short board. Making a 7 foot board turn like a 5-10 will bring new life to old surfers. I think the idea of a steerable fin may not be the right direction for surfboards because we are not like a boat with a rudder. We turn by placing weight on one side or the other and swinging the board with momentum. We have to look at skateboards or snowboards to see how they turn in different situations.
I think a fin that can change its stiffness, and height like fish do would make more sense. Maybe look at a fin that can go from short to longer like dagger boards on a sail boat.
Shark I have thought that a folding fin like the wing of an F16 fighter jet delta wing would be a real advancment. pulled tight for speed and exsented and foiled to turn.
The Moke Seal is bad ass. I wonder if he opens his eyes when jamm’n along like that… Mike
Just like standard fins, any new control system would be a ‘standard’, no need for it to be overly long but the opportunity for width would allow the system to provide even grip across the board irrespective of the board to wave angle.
Working on a left hand ‘system’, I could see a complete single piece being used, routed thru the board and dropped into the foam. Not much longer than a standard fin it would have several flat vanes that are set at slightly different can’t and toe in. There’s more to it of course … but its a basic concept of providing a range of control surfaces that aren’t a projection out of the board.
(Top view and End view.)
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a single fin fan for ever, but I reckon over the years the fins are moving closer to the rail for a reason… Maybe the next step is integrating the fins into the rails, I mean when laying on a rail the rail is used like fin with the other attached fin to keep it in line and add control.
They would probably end up smaller and adjustable, just like they are progressing now.
yep , Greg , you may well be right !
It will be interesting to see.
that picture of Tiger is pure north shore soul personified
Country surfboards, maybe 17" wide
BK kick stalls into the mother of all full gonzo rail turns
leashes?
we ain’t got no stinking leashes…
liking this thread , i got an idea long time ago about minimal control system something vented with less drag helped with long based 1 inch fins
going to install a new control system
Hi Wildy, Bill Thrailkills “Double Single” fins show that you can get that single fin effect without having a fin right in the middle. I’ve only made one of his boards but the feeling is amazing, a little stiffer than a true single but very stable and tons of Overdrive.
I agree about integrating the fins into the rails or the rails into the fins, it makes sense that fins will become more of an incorporated product than just a “stick on”.
Cut, looks like you’re about to launch that board out the window ! What are your thoughts on a vented system ? Are you in Australia ?
Back in the day when Herb Spitzer revealed his ported board I made dozens of versions so I’ve got a bit of experience in the theory and practical dimensions.
I’ll do a few drawings and then see if Rohans interested in doing the CAD work and then I’ll get them 3-D printed.
Anyone interested in collaborating?
I’ve installed and surf Blakstah’s moveable/rotating fin system
seemed okay
still have the boxes and stuff
also rode the Firewire Deviant floppy center fin with a set of future Elovan sides
which rode about the same
that side fin integrated into the board has been done by a shaper in southern california
they kind of remindle of Tom Morey’s original picture back in '71 or the wing fin on the fat penguin which was a interesting design concept if anything.
I think John Kelly had something similar way way back as did Mirandon regarding tails
fins
http://www.surfresearch.com.au/f.html
some time ago made some drawings and i think this design have minimal drag , basically it s a slott cut so water goes from bottom to top from different angles a VENT, also there is a small fin long base helping to minimize slide, i m not sure how long and wide this cut should be but got a few boards (first few ones)to play with, 1 inch wide by 9 inches to start i can make the cut longer or shorter even fill them with eva foam to test. i live in mar del plata argentina, i kite strapless a lot with my own surfboards and surf when it s calm, you guys are my idols specialy you surffoils.i know i have to reinforce the area. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WEhpz1Cwog
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