Who is the father of Compsand?

General Discussion
41

I think everyone knows the tech didn’t actually start in surfboards, just adapted to it by the guys mentioned previously. They obviously knew where they wanted to go, and this was going to take them there… to new parts of the wave.

The engineer who introduced me to all this was getting me to try stuff over 15 years ago, but I, and the guy I worked for at the time, didn’t have the means, or the motivation for that matter (I wonder why?), to adapt it to surfboards. I did it to my fins and still have not found better.

I dig that most of you guys are lower volume builders. It’s an advantage that a smaller business needs over big competitors, I guess like the one I work for.

We are all validating a manufacturing technology those guys put into surfboards many years ago.

42

I’m not sure about the specifics on Trademark laws, but my understanding was that if someone was using the term prior to you creating a trademark on it, they can go to court and make you give up the trademark, and stop you from using it in the future.

I found this out from someone that liked to trademark “cool” or “hip” names with the hope of forcing others to pay them to use it. The plan backfired when another person proved that he was using a name in his business earlier than the trademark was established.

I think Gary Young is the father of the modern wood veneered composite sandwich surfboard. It’s all documented with photos and there are many people who will confirm everything. I doubt if anyone besides Gary was doing this as a business 25 years ago.

He has several patents on the technology used for this form of surfboard building. A year or so ago I contacted Gary and asked if there was someone I could talk to about the boards he makes. I told him that I thought his boards sounded like the thing I wanted, but I’ve never heard from anyone about them. He told me to call a guy here on Oahu to ask how he liked the board that he made for him. Turns out the guy is a lawyer involved in these matters and Gary made the board for him for helping him get his intellectual property rights in order. I believe his current technology blows everything else out of the water, but he’s not a marketing guy. I still hope to get one of his boards to fill out my quiver, but trying to get together with him to work it all out has been a challenge.

I wouldn’t be too quick to be chasing after people using the term Compsand on their boards. I think that name belongs to Mr. Young. If anything, we all owe him for stealing this from him since he owns the patents to many of the processes we use.

FYI… Gary was involved with a company in Australia making Bamboo Compsand boards years ago. I don’t know the specifics, but it ended up in a mess and he needed to protect his interests. Remember Bamboo Surfboards? That company was shut down.

I think it was from that business partnership that all this compsand stuff took off.

43

Hey SharkCountry,

I certainly do remember Bamboo Surfboards Australia, based in Byron Bay. I worked for them briefly.

I was introduced to Gary in passing, only once, and from then on the name was only ever mentioned in hushed tones, (In hyndsight, as if not to acknowledge it…)

It was only in later years, well after the demise of “BSA” that I figured out that the business relationship had’nt been good for Gary.

It was the first place I saw a vacuum bed or vacumm bag, or inner glass, or skins, and from there I started to put a few clues together…Oh, apart from having had a look in “Wavelite”, in the very same factory before the Bamboo guys, the hemp laminated EPS boards. (Another side-note…)

So yes, Gary is well acknowledged. He’s in my little book of interesting people…but -

I would not name the clues I put together after BSA “Stealing Gary’s IP”…not by a long shot. Too many hard yards done since to consider myself a thief.

My main beef with the boards at that time was the rotary cut bamboo…the big ridge across the board every 8-12 inches.

Strictly speaking, Gary’s boards were not composite sandwich:- The Bamboo layer operated as an attempt to replace fibreglass, not as a sandwich skin. The sandwich concept is not present in a veneer…its just not thick enough.

But none of that is to lessen Garys work.

Ones personally built by Gary now are probably way nicer than what I worked on…BSA was left without its guiding light.

Compsand :- It’s better than Poodlespanker. Whatever its called, I like mine, they ride nice…

Josh

44

As far as I can tell, Gary Youngs patent lapsed 10 years ago.

He definitely had it all figured out!

Doing that kinda stuff back in the late 70’s, pretty impressive!

I’m definitely grateful to all that had a hand in inventing the tech, surfers or otherwise

Although, as all people who are deleving pretty deeply into making these things will know, it’s not just the tech that matters - it’s the correct application of the tech.

Just like how every PU shaper uses similar foam (they all used the same foam in the US, when Clark was around)

Glassed with almost identical schedule

etc etc

The difference is in the shape, and all the tricks of the trade and skill that makes one shaper/glasser/builder stand out from the rest.

Same with compsand - vac bagging wasn’t invented by surfers, nor sandwich construction, or vaccing down to curved tables, hotwiring or any of the materials we use - nothing

The important part is how you put the different combinations of materials together, the permutations and combinations of which are endless

45

Gary gives credit to the vacuum process idea he uses to the guys building windsurfboards and boats back in the 70s. I believe he took what they were doing and altered the process to what it’s become today or at least 20 years ago. I think he did invent the process of using rocker tables and vacuum bags to make wood veneered surfboards, otherwise he wouldn’t have been granted patents.

As far as I can tell his current boards are nothing like the compsands Bert or CMP and a lot of us are doing. They are all different in one way or another, but we all have good reasons for why we do things a certain way.

I may have interpreted it wrong, but I see a message to all of us who are not a part of the compsand.com hui to be careful about how we use the term “compsand” on the boards we make. I hope I am mistaken about that.

I don’t think the process the boards my brother and I make is similar to anyone elses, but the end product is a wood veneered, fiberglass sealed, composite sandwich style surfboard, or a compsand for short. I think it would be a joke to tell me that I am not making a proper compsand, or that I shouldn’t or can’t call it a compsand.

I don’t want someone getting on my back or suing me for using the term compsand in conjuction with the wood veneered via vacuum bag process surfboards I build.

I guess Amrose would sum it by saying it’s not a compsand surfboard but a “comps and surfboard”.

46

Fair enough!

Noones claiming the tech… that belongs to GY and others

Compsand is just a name!

The name is what we’ve been using for several years, so we thought we’d make it part of our brand.

That name only came in to existance a few years ago, and we started using it as soon as it did.

You gotta have a brand, or else nobody knows who you are!

I thought Paul put it pretty nicely - use of it in common speech by others only promotes it.

The idea behind trademark IP is that it protects you from other people gaining commercially from branding that you have invested in yourself.

So it kinda makes sense that we’d have objection to people marketing products with that branding, we’ve put a lot of effort into getting it to where it is.

Take Coil for instance -

I very much doubt that they would ever patent their process.

I’m also doubtful that they could, even if they tried, as it is most likely boatbuilding/aerospace techniques which are already known about in those industries. Much smarter to keep them as a trade secret.

So everyone refers to it as “Coil” technique.

Now if someone were to start making boards in a similar fashion - vac bagged laminates boasting high fibre contents, resulting in light weight stuff - the coil guys would have to live with it.

But if that person stuck coil logos on their boards and started marketing them like that… now thats wrong.

Theres many different ways of producing a laminate like that, but only a Coil is a Coil.

And by mentioning their name, i’m promoting them right now :slight_smile:

We have methods of assembling these things that no-one else is doing, but we are not going to patent them, for the same reasons. Also, if you patent something, then you have to tell everyone exactly what you are doing, spelled out to the letter in the patent document. Protecting your IP then becomes a major issue, especially with foreign manufacturing.

So all were talking about is the commercial use of the compsand brand, which shouldn’t worry anyone except people trying to use the name we have been promoting for their own commercial gain.

Kit

47 
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48

Have a look at that…have a really good look at that and shut yo bickerin’

Josh

49

Father of Compsand?

buncha babies

… thats humor

50

cpl things up your nose eh?

             huie
51

Since this thread has taken this turn, please tell us what has been trademarked, and what it is that we should not be doing in relationship to the term “compsand” and the boards we’re all building.

Want to end on a positive note so let us know what would be the win win of this.

I’m pretty sure everyone uses some sort of personal label, but there may be compsand written on the board somewhere like in the dims.

52

For what it’s worth the new process we’re working on is trademarked Timberfex. Anyone using the process is open to use that name for their boards. Technically Timberflex is a compsand as compsand is known here but the term compsand I believe is a much broader. We coined Timberflex as the name for the tech because there might have been a conflict with the compsand.com guys. I’m really not sure if there is.

53

just got a comusand

I’m gonna rub it out

geta semen sample

and send it to the lab.

when I get the rsults back

we will file paternity suits.

make mine Armani.

…ambrose…

54

There’s not any conflict…

We are not claiming the tech in any way, shape or form!

Everyone at Compsand credits Bert or Mike Sabin as opening the door for us to start learning - so that means all the guys who came before them get the credit as well.

And like Greg with Timberflex, we have no objections to people saying that they made a compsand.

Our whole site has been dedicated to backyarders building boards, so we’re completely cool with that

This difference is when you start marketing your boards commercially with that as your major selling point -

Piggy-backing off someone elses promotional work…

Thats the reason Greg has a trademark, as do we…

Things get silly if everyone calls their stuff the same thing, so it’s just easier to choose a name that no-one else is using?!

Thats what we did at the time, no-one was using it commercially, so we grabbed it as our domain name (and compsandsurfboards.com also), and have been having fun with it ever since…

But as we said before, people using it is only going to promote our website, so I don’t know why anyone would want to do that commercially! :slight_smile:

Unless someone starts selling crappy boards with our logo on them, then we’d probably take issue ha ha

This sums up what we have trademarked - For some reason I can never put photos inline!

55

hey sharkcountry

no conflict

the word “compsand” is in the public domain and is able to used to decribe a surfboard or method by anyone.

compsand.com is a registered trademark using the symbol on my avatar.

it is in place to protect the site and enable it to be self funding resource for cottage industry

compsand.com owns the domain,the logo, and a method

if a major label tried to use the word in there branding and took what is esentially a marketing umbrella for home builders and used it for there own profit.

then this would be the only conflict and it would be unlikely they could use it in a brand in aus and NZ, but possible in the U.S(due to different laws and cost of lawyers)

ive never delt with a lawyer other then the odd spit on the ground as they walk past

and probably never will

homebuilders and members of the site are free to use the word in pencil on their boards

like i said, if a company tried to run with the word in a “brand” this would be the only problem

i have no problem with greg using the word to decribe his process and finished article

however the blank itself is not compsand until it gets its sandwich skins

huie and petes blank is the same

they have there own name for the blank and they use the word compsand to decribe it once the skins are on

anyway the best soution is (if you use the site and ask me or any other members for advice>seems like im forever explaining myself and answering pms these days)

to buy the clear stickers to use on your boards or the laminates if you are a bit more serious

anyone that signs up for the laminates get the refined method

the licence fee is paid for in advance and is included in the cost of the laminates

i think it works out at about 5% the cost of a board (pretty good deal)

now its pretty easy to cast judgement about bringing money into to it

but the reality is, that for doug myself and a few others, this has become work!

we are mostly low income earners, dedicating a fair percentage of our time and a bit of money to it

and wish to make it at least self funding

it has nothing to do with early pioneers of the tech and makes no claims regarding who was first at what and when

(in fact everyone involved in the site have giving due respect for these guys)

things evolve at the same time in different places

shortboards and concaves etc etc

i make the claim now that we are equal to any of these guys in technology and perhaps due to the amount of contributors in R and D , we are possibly more advanced

as far as paying our dues

well maybe, if some people think shaping a surfboard 200000 times and little else, is paying your dues

personally i dont see it that way

life is more fullfilling and rewarding, if you are an individual that follows many creative pursuits such as art, music and science

and these things are what will give you a competetive edge over repetitious and entrenched attitudes

these are things that will give you the creative spark neccessary to take things beyond the status qou

so i believe we have paid our dues :slight_smile:

56

Thanks for the explanation.

I hope you’re venture pays off, I know that trademarks cost a pretty good amount of money.

I’m not making boards to be sold, but I’ve donated a couple to charities, and they’ve sold them. For me, it’s all about making something that I can’t get from my favorite local shapers. It doesn’t hurt that the skins make these boards extremely durable compared to the standard board.

I must say that once you get one done, it can become an obsession to make another one. For me the holy grail would be a polymer blank that could be shaped and ridden without being sealed, and yet be as light and strong as a standard board. Then I could mess with things over and over until I’m totally satisfied with all the combinations for that particular size and shape.

57

that would be cool

how about a polymer foam board that after you shape

you just iron it with a standard clothing iron

and that seals it

58

I just finished the final touches on my time machine and I am now the father of compsand.

Any of you guys that are also interested in time travel, meet me at B Barnfield’s Raging Isle surf shop last Thursday.

59

Classic…I’ll be there.

60

Hey Otay,

I was there already…did’nt you see the guy with the Jason mask on rubbing all the retro boards vigorously?

Josh