why the delay?

One more point, and I know I risk both extending this thread too long and ruffling feathers, because I’m not a shaper, but in my humble opinion, the idea of the custom board and the shaper relationship is the only reason there are shapers in business at all. If you seek to standardize the process so that a machine can do your work, guess what? the machine will do your work, with the help of an hourly wage operator, and you are out of a job.

In photography, we cultivate the idea that somehow, we bring to the table something the client can’t, or they would do it themselves. This is especially true in the digital age. When these cameras came out, the buzz was that we, with our film and exposure knowledge, weren’t needed anymore. the clients themselves could just rent a camera and click away until they got something they could use. It is up to us to convince them that it is our developed eye, sense of framing, lighting knowledge, experience, and aesthetics that makes it worth paying for.

Shouldn’t shapers strive to develop this cachet? The idea that the magic flows from their hands? If a custom board is harder to produce, then it should be priced above those numerically defined machinable options. But if nobody thinks that’s special, no one will go for it. It sounds like trickery, and in some ways it is, but part of what they would be buying is the idea that a wizard put some magic in their board. Wanna know how a local shaper can compete against Al Merrick and Rusty? Develop that cachet. If people get the idea that while a custom rusty is probably cut on a machine and finished by a ghost shaper, but YOU gave THEIR board your personal attention, they are gonna come back to you. But only if you convince them that you offer something special. How do you develop the cachet? Two ways. First, create some portfolio pieces. I’m talking about art here. Shape some really beautiful, interesting, off the beaten path designs that mirrors your design philosophy and sets you apart. Put’em where the public can see 'em, and tell everyone their either not for sale, or well over a grand. Develop an image of yourself, a brand. The second way is to develop relationships with clients. That’s where this thread comes in. All it takes is a straight answer why the board’s gonna be late, and spin it to your advantage–“Ah, yeah, it’s still at the glassers, they were due to get a new batch of resin in, so I told them to hold your board until it came, the fresh resin will be stronger” make them think the wait is to make their board better, then the lateness becomes a positive thing. That’s a lot better sounding than “uh, we’re out of shipping foam…” ugh. If production is backed up, mention it when they are ordering, soften the blow. Don’t say it will be done in two weeks, when you know darn well it won’t be done in five. Airlines started padding their flight times a few years ago, so that now, flights come in “a few minutes before expected” alot. Dishonest? yes. Effective? absolutely. I know it’s going on, but it still gives me a little lift, “ah, we’re early, I have time…”

I dunno, that’s just how I see things, maybe I’m way off. But the shapers that get my business work that way already. These are guys that i’m comfortable saying do what you think is best for these waves, and my style. No machine can do that.

running out of pennies, wells

I nearly always order custom. At 6’3" and 220#, off-the-rack is very unlikely. I have good luck, too. After many boards from Bob Miller, Fletch Chouinard (Point Blanks) and Steve Boehme (Infinity) I’ve always been satisfied. The Infinity even arrived about 10 days earlier than expected.

The keys, I’ve found, to developing a shaper relationship are mainly to NOT overspecify what you want. Talking in general terms about how & where I surf, what I’m looking for, and what I’ve been surfing has led to the experts being free to do their magic. You don’t get great service by telling anybody how to do their job.

I’m just now finishing up my first board, soup to nuts. It’s turning out ok and will probably surf fine. But I’m not ready to give up on customs yet, either…

gee…wouldn’t it be cool if you could side step all this BS a learn how to make a board yourself?

Wonder if there’s a web site out there for making boards?

google…

Back to the idea of certified shapers as a path to higher quality: I have a comparison.

I worked in Germany in a custom woodworking shop. Germany has a very organized system for developing craftsmen that involves apprentice school and on the job training. Let me tell you, when those guys are done with training and get their Journeyman certification or Master certification, they know how to build it and how to make it as close to perfect as I’ve ever seen. I was humbled to say the least.

However, their attention to teaching “the way to do things”, and preserving the traditions of craftsmanship came at a cost. The cost? THEY WEREN’T CREATIVE!

High quality work? Absolutely. But the mental freedom to try something outside the envelope? Too uncomfortable. And why make something that’s too different? There was no point.

It’s all a matter of creative, mental freedom. Backyard shapers, woodworkers, and artists of any kind can often have fewer restraints in trying new things. Maybe just because we don’t know any better. And, in the U.S. (and many other places) creativity is rewarded. A guy can build a surfboard in his garage and be respected for it. Maybe even make a living at it if he wants to. Not so easy in Germany.

I say, let the little guy work his little butt off. If someone likes what he does…good for him. And as we all strive for quality in our work, God Bless Swaylock’s, a place where we can all throw our ideas and experiences in the pot for everyone’s benefit. Doug

Doug just furthered the point I made previously about the free enterprise magic of supply and demand. The point made earlier about the price fixing, illegal thing is way off. In a free market anyone is free to raise prices any time they are brave enough to risk diminishing the demand for their product. It is only in a monopolistic industry where the general public is adversely affected that price fixing comes into play. A few guys that arbitrarily decide to add a few bucks to what they charge is at the opposite end of the spectrum from “price fixing”. Socialistic societies don’t get it, which is why Doug is correct about high prices, no creativity, and over regulation by the govt. (such as in Germany) to stifle the little guy that wants to build a new widget in his own backyard. If Bill Gates and Steven Jobbs had been required by the govt. to have a “masters certificate” before they were allowed to tinker with computers, we wouldn’t be here clicking away on these keyboards.

“Profit” is the most beautiful thing going. A little left over after all the expenses is what the whole deal is about! It’s why we’re all here, hey, it’s why America is still America. Keep shaping, charge as much as your worth and as much as people are willing to pay you. Your competition will always keep you in check. Lesser shapers than you will fade away and better shapers will be the carrot you chase. That’s the game we play here. If you live and work in America be proud, if not, vote your way toward a free enterprise system. This is not a chamber of commerce right-wing manifesto, just a casual observation by a guy who’s been in small business for 35 years. Enjoy the ride.

Richard wrote,

A few guys that arbitrarily decide to add a few bucks to what they charge is at the opposite end of the spectrum from “price fixing”

Ah, but only if they didn’t talk about it first. If they belonged to a trade organization, or even if a couple of guys have lunch together, someone stands up and says, hey let’s hike the price ten bucks, that’s illegal. Remember, the definition of a “market” can be scaled down too. If two gas station owners in a neighborhood talk it over and decide to add two cents per gallon, you got it, illegal.

Remember, what I’m talking about has nothing to do with government, or laws. It’s more like a peer group. Nothing is enforced except for membership, and it would be quite easy to get in. The photography ones usually require a portfolio review and a couple of referrals, that’s all, and you really have to do some shoddy work to be thrown out. It really serves to elevate the standards of a particular craft, and encourages sound business practices by offering optional education opportunities. Once people see you carry the logo, they might pay a few bucks more for your boards, because they know that the organization has integrity. (BTW, those cheap chinese boards wouldn’t make it, and neither would the pop-outs) That is the free market at work.

What kind or small business are you involved with, might I ask? I bet that there are such organizations for you, too, already in existance. Several of my friends run small businesses of widely varying types, and most of them belong to similar kinds of groups.

Hello Wells,

Hasn’t the ‘Get a custom board from your local guru foam shaper’ idea already been advertised in a big way? I think that most surfers are already aware that some shapers have more experience and credentials than others. There is a continuous drone from the surf industry trying to encourage buyers to support the establishment, so much so that the foam board industry looks a lot like a global franchise already.

Regards, Roy

Way back in 1970 we formed the first trade union.It was called B.U.S.T.(Brotherhood Union Surfboard Tradesmen).We collected membership dues and then everyone started arguing about what to do with the funds.After two hours we decided to go to the Bar and got swaaacked out.A short lived success.

Way back in 1970 we formed the first trade union. It was called B.U.S.T.(Brotherhood Union Surfboard Tradesmen).We collected membership dues and then everyone started arguing about what to do with the funds.After two hours we decided to go to the Bar and got swaaacked out.A short lived success.

Now THAT’S what I’m TALKIN’ about!

It’s been 35 years, maybe we should try it again! Question is, in which bar…

(sigh) my brother just spent two years in the peace corps in nicaragua, working in economic development. He was involved with a microcredit union, and was trying to form a leather worker’s collective. The collective was going to try to pool resources to buy a tanning machine that none could afford individually. Also, they were going to share tips and techniques, and try to agree on ways that they all could make their products better, so that they could get a little more for their wares in the market. Otherwise, their area was ripe for a big international organization to come along, build a factory, and enslave the local population in low paying skill-less jobs that had little to do with their craft, which had been handed down through generations.

Sound familiar?

He said that the main reason people dropped out of the peace corps was not that they couldn’t hack the hard work or living in the field. it’s really not that bad. It was the OVERachievers that couldn’t hack it, the ones who had said to themselves, “gee-golly, I’m going in there and I’m really gonna make a difference!”

Anyone who has been to Central America can imagine why. The average turnout at a particular meeting was about half of the group. The average time a particular member showed up was about an hour after the scheduled meeting time. If it was raining, no one showed up. When I was there, my brother skipped a meeting HE had called, because it was raining, and he KNEW no one would be there. After about 6 months, his group had begun to bicker, and had split into 3 groups, which I think all spent their pooled money on booze, in the end. While he was there, he formed three such groups, all of which failed. Too much mistrust, too much ego.

He said that you had to be satisfied that maybe, just maybe, you had planted a seed, and made a small change, no matter that it was completely immeasurable. Those overachievers who dropped out couldn’t take the failure of repeatedly slamming into a huge wall of human nature, leaving not a dent.

I don’t care about a surfboard trade organization really, I was just giving a parallel example from my field, that’s proven, and it works. If no one thinks the surfboard industry is broke, then don’t fix it. That’s not what I hear from guys like Greg Loehr though…

I’m out of pennies.

wells.

Wells,

My post was to imply nothing at all against trade organizations. I encourage such, as it fosters good business. Regarding price fixing, as a former executive with a public held company in charge of several hundred employees, I’ve had experience with such related issues (glad to say that chapter is behind me). Price fixing is all but not an issue with this post and related subject. It might be a different story if there were in fact a strong shapers union or large organization that attempted to control prices to the extent a segment of the public was ill served and adversely affected.

When one backyard shaper goes to lunch with another and states he’s going to raise his prices due to the new increased cost of resin and his inability to meet expenses, and the other guy thinks he’ll do the same, by no means is construed as enforceable price fixing (at least not in this country). Backyard shapers or even small companies who do not “conspire” with others certainly have no problems at all in attempting to meet expenses by trying to charge what they deserve. I’ve been involved in trade organizations for 30 years or so and recommend anyone being involved. I have spent most of my years in “small business” and am most content as a one-man show (you asked what business (www.mccormickfinewoodworking.com)

Doug,

I agree with you about creativity suffering as a result of organised training in the crafts. This has already happened in surfing, due to the overwhelming amount of advertising which promotes current competition styles.

Regarding custom surfboards, the foam board industry has promoted the idea that to really be a top notch surfer, you not only have to get a custom surfboard, you have to emulate the ‘pros’ by getting a new custom as often as you can afford. This is the notion of the disposable custom board. The New Zealand shortboard magazines, for example, repeatedly suggest that one should get a new ‘stick’ at least every six months, and preferably every three months to keep up with supposed design advances. On top of that they suggest that to be a real ‘Hell man’ surfer you should break as many surfboards as you can. This supposedly proves not only that you charge, but also that you are going for ultra light boards to gain a few extra ounces of performance. The ‘pros’ who go through 50 boards per year are held up as the example to emulate. It is easy to calculate that if everybody followed this advice, instead of buying a new board say, once a year, then there is four times as much work for the shapers, and four times as many boards built.

This is a waste of resources, and is also misleading advertising.

On the other hand there is the custom board (foam or wood) which is built to last and to be treasured. This idea of ‘custom’ is surely better from every point of view except raw sales numbers. The custom surfboard as a collectible, functional, work of art is the only way to go if shapers want to get their prices up. Custom but disposable is a scam which keeps custom board prices down.

Regards, Roy

No, you’re right, I may have gone too far in my analogy. But the gas station thing holds, there were a couple of stations here in SF that were busted for gouging, they had been agreeing in secret to match each other’s prices during one of the recent “energy scares”.

What I meant was that within trade organizations, like the one I was proposing, you have to be careful regarding consensus-based price agreements. Photography trade groups make it clear that there can be no such talk amongst members…It could be more important in photography, because pricing is such a fluid concept, each assignment is different…

BTW, Nice stuff on the website…

As they say in Hollywood,

heres my card

love your work

lets do lunch

wells

…Wells, see, the point you missed is : “surfers”…

…the craftmen organizations or whatever , included your marketing speech, forgot, forget the surfers mentality…i think

…in the other cases, you work or sell or…, with average people, i mean, plombers, doctors, carpenters, truckers, etc; all types of peoples, you know…

…the marketing thing only works(in surfboard stuff) i think, when you have got enough money to invest…

i put Fernando Aguerre like example: Argentinian, but with a project and money to think in put his money in found a company in Usa…

if he was stayed in Mar del Plata, now he´s got only a “backyard sandals company”…

THis thread originally was about delays and somehow it turned in to discussions about trade organizations.Actually it all comes back to the same old thing about Surfers and how slack they are.Two years ago I talked about the B.U.S.T. (Brotherhood Union Surfboard Tradsemen) and everyone got stoked on the idea of having some T SHirts made up.Man we were fired up and Kokua volunteered to make them up and sell them on Swaylocks to the Bros.SO…Hey Kokua wheres dem Tshirts eh???I’ll take 5 XLarge.LOL R.B.