Working with Kevlar

General Discussion
1

Any suggestions.

Now that I have my blue foam railed bamboo skinned fish finished, I’m thinking of laying a 6" strip of kevlar along the rail to protect the exposed foam as well as bind the deck sandwich to the rail tighter than just the overlap. I’m alittle worried caused CMP said that the only board he made that snapped had Carbon fiber tape on the rails but Kevlar should be a little more flexible.

I understand the stuffs nasty to sand which is my biggest concern since I’ll have to blend it in to the top and bottom before glassing the board…

BTW as bad as it’s going to be based on all the build out horror stories, the stuff was a dream to work rails out of compared to EPS of small 1/8"-1/4" strips of balsa where you have glue/resin lines to cut through and smooth out.

thinking of checking out of here soon like CMP already has done starting this year primarily to maintain my sanity.

priorities that’s it…

Got in 10-12 hours of water time this weekend and that was so much better than the heat stroke I suffered in the couple hours I spent in my white Tyvek suit sanding my lams and laps down. later Saturday afternoon. Having to rush home after a 5+ hour session just to get all hot and sweaty and being too tire to hit it again in the afternoon is not what I believe I want to get out of all this… The thick floaty 6’6" 5 fin bonzer we made sucked so bad I had to go in and get my flyer. I took my Alexander Gem1 out on Sunday and it blew both of my homemade boards out of the water which tells me alot about the difference between an amateur effort versus the pros. I have enough epoxies to last me the next 3-5 years anyway.

mahalo for the continuing inspiration and knowledge…

elightenment leads to personal growth no matter how painful it is…

2

The stuff is hard to cut. try dripping a line of thin superglue across any area that needs to be cut. It will make it brittle so it will break better. Try to arrange the kevlar so you dont have to sand it. I learned my lesson the hard way I wore out 2 belts on my belt sander while trying to sand my rails. I plan on molding some hollow kevlar rails next week. Ive never done anything like it before so wish me luck.

3

Any suggestions.

  1. Yeah, DON’T!

…primarily to maintain my sanity.

  1. K.I.S.S. - what’s wrong with FG? please refer back to #1

Got in 10-12 hours of water time this weekend and that was so much better than the heat stroke I suffered in the couple hours I spent in my white Tyvek suit sanding my lams and laps down.

  1. ah yes, youre starting to get it…

priorities that’s it…

  1. BINGO!

  2. And, dont forget to blame Bert…send therapist’s bill directly to him.

:wink:

4

yea I saw that comment way back thanks…

and luck…

how’s that…

oh yea sell the kit/instructions when you are done there’s alot of modelers that would pay I’m sure…

5

Bernie, don’t check out…I’m with Meecrafty, maybe slow it down a little :slight_smile: You push yourself probably harder than any other backyarder in here, your productivity is off the charts. Sit a bit, have a beer, do a Sudoku puzzle, take a look around your backyard, as it looks & smells when its just plants, not foam & dust…

Last winter, as I was just getting into all the vac-poxy-bal-sandwich stuff, I worked right through the winter. Spaceheaters in the garage, blushing laminations, hotcoat voids, wet floors…too much stress, too many variables I couldn’t control. This year, I’ve carved out a couple of blanks & just let 'em sit. Nothing else besides that in 2 months or so. I’ll probably give it another month before I get back on it. A break is a good thing.

Ben

6

Time and space are truly my enemies…

busted my butt this weekend and now have 3 boards ready to fin and spray finish, a balsa rail wrap gem, bamboo-corecel rail fish and bamboo-corecel rail flyer. Also bagged the bamboo deck skin on fish number two and tapered and finished off shaping it’s blue foam rails so it is also now ready to glass. Then I also need to cut and attach 1"-2" blue foam rails to a 19" wide 5" thick gem I’m making for some 210lb-230lb “big boy friends” I know who are antsy to ride a gem. So effective Sunday 4-5 boards in various stages of completion done over two to three weekends.

And even with all that done we still have a huge 16’ 1lb EPS canoe that needs to be glued up and shaped, a huge donated block of 1lb EPS we need to hot wire a 12’ paddle board and 10’ long board out of. A 10.1Y 2lb EPS blank CMP made so my brother can finally finish a board for his youngest daughter. Also a CNC’d 6’10" Clark Gem-1 I need to finish sand off and just epoxy glass (No lam on that) and two left over glued up gem rockered Lowes blanks we don’t know what to do with right now… So the backyard patio is a mess and it hasn’t helped that it’s been storming rain the past week or two… That is why I’m trying to get everything out of the way before we start on the canoe and 12 footer.

In the line up this weekend I noticed out of all the hoards of guys I surf with, only two others rode what I call truly home made boards. There’s just too much good stuff out here not to be buying the either off the rack or custom if you have connections. The stuff coming out of the hands of name, indie and ghost shapers is truly amazing really on another whole different level than what you can do in your frontyard as an amateur. I know it’s not a very Sways like thought but with so much professional talent out there it just seems such a waste not to be trying to improve yourself riding the best of todays designs with years of research behind them than some home made interpretations of the same.

Shaping is the real secret to all this the other stuff we do is just and anxillary add-on to that.

I’ve learned a hell of alot in the 20-30 boards so far this past year but most of all I learned that I can apply my growing skinning and bagging skills to make something that was good to start with even better than trying to re-invent the wheel in the first place. It’s a hell of alot less messy and you are almost guaranteed to end up with a great end product with little work especially if you outsource the final glassing/final sanding to an expert too…

I think that’s where Bert has us all fooled somewhat as he was a well seasoned board maker/designer before he became a skinbagger which makes a hell of alot of sense than us skin-baggers trying to become well seasoned board makers.

I don’t know if any of this makes sense just my take on my experiences so far which is alot different that many of those hear with the time, space and appropriate skill sets, like artist, carpenter, model maker etc etc…

Vacations are good…

I know CMP’s been happy since he took his…

Oh yeah, while you all are at it…

Build a travel board and donate it to the crew and let others find out what’s happening out there…

That’s what the end result should be of all this stuff.

Sharing with the community our triumps and disasters…

7

Benny…the glue that binds us…I LOVE YOU MAN!!!

Seriously, checking out for a few days is not a bad idea…

Yup, my online psycho-analysis says Oneula is suffering from classic “BURNTITUS”

…and its root cause is 20-30 boards in one year, within the confines of a small residential workspace…classic!

Yes Yes…was just there myself in early Dec…the mess in the garage…the sleepless nights…barking at my closest loved ones.

Then I went cold-turkey…cleaned out the garage, put away all the tools…didnt even think about surfboards for a LEAST a month…slowly started to feel better but not quite…

regular visits to my therapist (below) was extremely helpfull…

she’s always there for me…

doesnt complain…

and she’s pretty cheap these days.

Iiiiii dont wanna work…

I just wanna bang on da drums all day…

8

Trick with homemade board is not NOT deviate too far from established norms. Anything super thick is a deviation.

Kevlar on foam, don’t sand, just sureform after cure, then glass over. Do a good job squeegeeing it down and flat as possible.

Kevlar won’t break, but because of flex, also doesn’t bond well when subjected to flexing loads. So you get delams, but K won’t break, but airspace causes other problems.

Good you’re so busy. I have nothing to do. I should fly over and help you out with your composites projects.

9

I’m seriously feeling you Bernie…

I’ve been working steady at my boards, 4 days a week, since I returned from my honeymoon in January. I have one done and ridden, one lammed and waiting for logo and glass, one needing a deck skin and glass, and one that’s getting rails today.

Only the one that’s done and ridden is for me, the rest are either for a bro or to sell to recoup my expenses.

Frankly, I’m having a hard time getting excited anymore about going out to the garage every day. It was a thrill when I was using a new technique to make beautiful, light, long-lasting boards for myself. Now that I have dialed in my own process of putting them together, and I have all the boards I need or want right now, building boards for others or just to sell is kind of a chore, almost like a job.

So, I’m not going to say that I’m quitting shaping after I finish this bunch. I hate dealing in absolutes. But, I am going to say that after this bunch I’m going to be looking for another project to occupy my 4 days a week of free time. Maybe build a boat, or restore some cool old vehicle, something like that. And of course, spend plenty of time riding these boards I have that don’t get all the attention they deserve.

Oh, and to stay on topic…

I’ve heard that the best way to lay up epoxy/kevlar is in such a way that it doesn’t have to be sanded. Because it doesn’t like to be sanded. At all.

10

Hi Bernie -

Yeah, with your production schedule, it’s no wonder you’re getting tired. It’s turning into a grind. Keep it at a hobbyist level and you’ll be much happier. You might even decide to stick around.

Check out this famous designer… he creates in his mind and lets his crew do the grunt work. With your rate of production, it sounds like you could use some factory space and an entire work force of laborers to help you out.

Luigi Colani probably spends his time schmoozing with the art crowd, yelling at his workers but never getting his hands dirty.

http://www.colani.ch/frame.htm

11

hey oneula

i thought about using kevlar on the rails but decided against it

im going to use 6 oz e glass and a flexible epoxy

im with meecrafty

slow down a bit

take your time on things

i decided 1 board every two or three months is about max for me

thats about 3 to 4 hours a week

cruising

12

“But, I am going to say that after this bunch I’m going to be looking for another project to occupy my 4 days a week of free time.”

Hey Shwuz, didn’t you say that you just got married?

;)~

13

I think I stay away from the Kevlar…

Maybe use it with an 8" strip of Bamboo lam for horizontal stringer reinforcement between the sheets so to speak.

Quote:

And of course, spend plenty of time riding these boards I have that don’t get all the attention they deserve.

Yup that’s quickly becoming the problem.

Got at least 4-5 sandos I haven’t even ridden yet for one reason or another… Too gunny too thin too short etc etc… I’m always finding an excuse to bust out my old reliables cause coming back in and paddling back out if you make a mistake is an energy drainer. such was the case both Saturday and Sunday. Wrong board for the waves breaking at that time…

This is the advice I constantly get from all my surfing family and other friends in the lineup.

You’ll never become a better surfer/waterman if you continue to spend more time out of the water than in it learning your craft. I’m also constantly reminded that you only need to learn how to perfect your technique on one board till it breaks up so bad you can’t ride it anymore its only then that you move on to something new. Equipment don’t make you better equipment and lot of surfing it does…

That’s about as clear cut as anyone including those here could put it from a surfer’s and not a builder’s perspective…

And the problem with these sando’s is they’ll last forever especially the real ugly ones you don’t want to take out in public.

Thank’s I got some good direction on the Kevlar thought.

Next to find a way to protect them blue rails from impact delamming, should’ve balsa wrapped them…

Now I just gotta finish up and get more time in the water where it all comes togethor…

Thanks again and see ya in the lineup…

14

see signature below…

15

Oneula,

don’t leave man! I need you…your posts are always enlightening! Maybe, as the others have said, just cool it off a little, take a short break, or just limit your production!

In all fairness, if you think back to the beginning of the sways bagging craze, and Berts initial thread, he did say in the beginning that the reason that he was sharing so much info is because he was ready to relax, do a few boards a week and hang out with his kids…so I can understand your concerns. I am at about 25-30 boards total…it hasn’t been a long time, but it sure has been longer than a year! You are busy, that is for sure.

I occassionally lose my motivation…the thing that gets me is that my shaping life and the rest of my life are colliding. I glass my boards in my living room, on top of a piece of masonite and some plastic sheeting…I can hardly walk to the fridge without stepping in semi-hard epoxy, and EPS dust doesn’t even phase me anymore…that is what gets me…it would be so much easier to go to the shop and point to the one I want!

But…the thing that gets me is the challenge, to see what I can create, and how much better each board gets. The thing that keeps me sane is the cash flow…when I run out of money, I stop for a while. But inevitably, someone wants a “bro deal” on a board, and being able to share the stoke is addicting…so I shape a board or two, maybe make a few bucks, and my mind starts wandering again…what can I do next??

If you gotta take a break, we all understand…but hopefully you’ll be back!! When the time is right, that is…

16

oneula,

Well… I really hope you don’t choose to leave permanently. If you do I, for one, wish you all the luck in the world. Ditto if you choose to increasingly settle into the background (rather than suddenly bailing 100%).

All the best, always.

17

Aloha Bernie:

I got in some quality water time Saturday morning at Paradise (Waikiki) for about 4 hours. The sets were head high and glassy in the morning. I caught my share of waves and had fun! It was just enough to recharge my batteries and get me re-motivated to get working again on my fishing surfboard project. I am laying down the high-density foam know and should be glassing the final layers this coming weekend.

I guess the point I am trying to make is my passion is with the surfing first and the board construction second and balancing that with other priorities of being a husband, father, family man and a provider. If board construction starts to consume you, take time for a surf session. Give me a call and we can share a few waves together.

Your projects excite me. I want to see your balsa creations in person and I am waiting to see what you will create with the big old block of donated foam.

Keep it simple (Meecrafty-KISS) and most of all, keep it fun!

D