Implications can sure be deceiving sometimes! Again, not the tool…the eye. Sure adjustment on the fly is a key ingredient, no argument there. Some of these “masters” are not so masterful no matter how many they have shaped. Guy’s like J Phillips use Hitachi’s daily and I would be more inclined to want to learn from these solid surfer/ shaper/ craftsman types than someone who has done “numbers” (not that he hasn’t).
[quote="$1"] Guy's like J Phillips use Hitachi's daily and I would be more inclined to want to learn from these solid surfer/ shaper/ craftsman types....
[/quote]
'Nuff said.
Taylor, if you've got the pro-model Hitachi, you don't really need a 100. The longer baseplate of an un-shortened 100 might come in handy on those 8' - 10' guns you're doing, but it gets in the way on shortboards and for that reason most pros cut 'em down. Best advice to all who want to be better shapers is to throw away the surform, but I'll get pelted for saying it.....
“throw away the surform” Hahahahaha!!!
I’d be lost. Well, not really, I’m moving away save those new micro blades I got… very nice…
I was convinced I’d not ever bother with a planer till ambrose put one in my hands, and said, “The first pass is free…” Ha! I bought one within the season after my return…
The funniest thing to me, after reading the new stuff, is my view of myself… I’m so slow, in no hurry anyway, vs. the “production” guys, I see it so artsy it’s like making love to the foam - and, making my own blanks, in some ways I start real close to where I’m going, but in other ways, it’s a long trip, and the planer really helps. I made a vac. hook up on mine, so as not to be shooting foam all over the place, but not thinking I’d be taking that much off anyway… Ha! How surprised was I to find my 8 gallon tank full the first time.
I couldn’t agree more… “Throw it away”
What is this planner everybody keep talking about?
I have skill saw?
i shape with a angle grinder and chainsaw
we use cheese graters better than Mike’s wire brush routine
someone say green?
no electricity consumed to make this beast.
no artificial lighting either or AC or special room…
Sharkbait says we should make a DVD and patent the technique
the sell it to the chinese
we’re pushing the envelope
get better?
shape it-surf it-fix it-then keep detailed measurements when you get it right.
i think that sums it up everyone great shaper’s career
Hey rooster, I lost the fact that you were the OP, and advised Taylor to throw away his surform. Sorry 'bout that.
But you throw yours away too, OK?
I used to have 5 planers.Hitachi’s,Converted Bosch,Skil. If I could choose one it would be the Skil. I am set in my ways. If I were to teach a young person to shape I would get them the newer modified Hitachi. The upright handle conversion made it in to a superb tool… My converted Bosch is great for skinning a blank and making cuts where you do not have to change the depth as you go. Surforms are good for final detaling on rail bands. All of this mean nothing to anyone but me. To each his own.
I had a friend who used to have his boards shaped by a down home 'soul shaper' in Santa Barbara. The guy shaped outside and used a coffee can with one side flattened and holes punched through from the inside to shape boards. I think he might have had a small hobby hand plane for the stringer and some sanding blocks/pads but the bulk of the shaping was done with his home made coffee can surform. His shapes were nice and my friend did OK on them. IMO it's more about the design and the shaper's eye than the tools.
I think your eyes and hands and how you translate that to the board with whatever tool you are using is the most important factor. Jim Phillips uses the planer like a surgeon and Dick Brewer loves using the surform
I like these last few posts in particular - a shaper’s BEST TOOL IS HIS BRAIN!
and most shapers are blokes and everyone knows blokes think with there dick (surfers moreso)
so a shapers best tool must really be his dick
Done, it can’t get any better than that!
Anybody have a copy of Mike Perry's classic "Shaping by Chainsaw'' article from about 1980?
Still one of the funniest things I ever read in a surf mag.
I personally had 2 different shapers from Becker tell me that they shaped 22 and 27 boards a day by hand, I can’t see it from my house
Hey Jim, if you're gonna join this party you should tell the story about how addicted to the surform I was when I met you. You very patiently showed me WHY I shouldn't depend on it or trust in it.
The 22-27 bds/day stuff reminds me of a high-speed guy I used to know. He could have shaped 20/day if he wanted, but he chose to do 4/day. everyday, and just spend maybe 2 hrs total at work per day. I had joined his boss and a couple others for a pre-lunch ''appetite-enhancer'' when he walked in to tell the boss he was done for the day. Boss goes, ''no, wait, I've got one more order I need you to do before you leave''. Speedboy grumbled for a minute 'cause he'd already done his 4, but then grabbed a blank and went back in his room. We spent a few more minutes talking and started to head to lunch. But our path was blocked by somebody coming out of their room holding a finished shape and thrusting it towards the bossman, saying ''Here. Done. Seeya tomorrow". It had been less than 20 minutes. I remember watching him shape once, he went so fast with his planer the blank had tearing all over it. About 3 minutes of vigorous surforming took that out, and about 3 minutes of sanding/screening to finish.
If I ever did that I feel like you'd materialize in my room and kick my ass....
Aloha Mike and others
Please note that this post isn’t directed at you Mike. Your particular post just got me motivated to write.
The subject of speed or shaping fast comes and goes on Swaylocks with regularity. Generally, I avoid these discussions as everyone gets way to sensitive and personal. But at the risk if it going there… Here are some thoughts.
A shapers perception of speed and quality achieved is usually based upon what they can personally deliver. Or secondarily on what they may have seen others do. But barring those opportunities, the most popular perception is based on what they have heard thrown around in discussions. Swaylocks has expanded those discussions to many who would never normally hear them let alone ever see it being done.
When I had ProGlass running at full production Eric Arakawa was one of the many shapers working there over the years. Eric’s room was right next to mine and both rooms were set up virtually identical and both of us used pretty much the exact same tools.
Just for fun, we would race each other from time to time. But the overriding goal would still be perfect quality, regardless of speed. We could each finish boards to within a couple of minutes of each other… I won’t say who was faster… 
! (Eric reads Swaylocks) But these boards would take just shy of 30 minutes to shape from scratch, totally by hand, with only the common power tools. And they would come out perfect! Granted these were stock boards not customs but they did require hitting specific numbers and I am sure neither I nor Eric would have minded if a team rider grabbed one if those numbers suited them.
Now to be clear, neither Eric or I would be what most would consider production shapers, when compared to large brands like Hobie back in the day. When I worked at Hobie, Micky Munoz, Terry Martin and Jeff Logan were the primary shapers. They each shaped 15 or so boards a day. And those boards were damn good, virtually flawless and not screwed up in any way accountable solely to the speed they were being shaped at.
Eric and I were only shaping around 4 per day back then. Had we needed to, we could have easily done significantly more per day and still maintained the quality level. But that was not our lifestyle goal. While we each would do stints in Japan or elsewhere at higher production, the most I would do in those situations would be around 10 per day. The biggest hinderance to speed back then was blanks that were too thick. If this was the case in Japan, I would often have their in house shaper, take a couple full cuts off the blanks to thin them before they ever came to me.
If one can’t imagine going this fast and nailing the quality, then they typically won’t believe it can be done. If they personally can’t do it, they don’t believe others can. If they haven’t seen it done, they don’t believe it ever was done. This is a terrible insult and disservice to those craftsmen who are talented and skillful enough to do it. Speed in not synonymous with low quality and GOING SLOWER is no guarantee that a board will be any better in quality! If a particular craftsmen can’t do quality at speed then going slower may be the right answer for him personally but that won’t mean it is true for all others. It just eases his mind to believe it is.
I have no desire to shape at the speed or numbers I used to. Not because I can’t, but because… well… “been there done that”! I am not interested in making stock boards and that means all boards are now customs. Each is widely diverse from the others and that is a lot more fun for me. Fact is I always did more customs then anything else. Still, I spend only as much time as is necessary to get the shape right for each customer. A big part of the satisfaction in the art and the craft is a complete mastery of that craft. It is not just the board or the happy customer alone that makes it satisfying to the craftsman. The craftsman/artist also has to finish up satisfied. Dawdling around for hours to do something that should be done much faster is just as discouraging to a master craftsman as screwing up a shape by going to fast!
The key is knowing one’s limits and knowing when to operate responsibly within them for the sake of one’s customers. But also when to seize the opportunities to learn to do things both better AND FASTER…
Good discussion. On the topic of sureforms, I use mine for the buttcrack in my fishes. That's about it. Tell me a better tool and for that spot and I'll give it a try. But, I won't get rid of it. I'm a 'get another tool guy,' not a 'get rid of tool guy.' Mike
…hello BB,
no matter how a master could be but today with for ex.: Surfblanks Brazil or Aussie type of chemistry + Hitachis small or big ones + close tolerance plugs you can t go too much faster or you tear up like hell
yes still you can do like the guy MD described
but with close tolerance plugs and if you work with several thickness dims and with complicated shapes you can got a deep tearing and you f–k the shape and the dims
.I think if the planers have more power, rpms, all we can go faster, inclusive with that specialty foam
also, a big part of those production guys in the 80s that loved the surform (with the original blades) and tried to fix everything with that tool…weren t so accurated, in my opinion
may be because of that I saw bunch of boards with mistakes or boards that didnt rest true in a leveled lam rack, etc
still now ( the machine, so the shapes are only finish ones…) from time to time some customer bring here with boards (top brands or shapers) from different places and I can see mistakes
mainly in the rails and in symmetry around fins