XPS - first board

General Discussion
1

Well I got bored the other day and decided I was going to build my first board. Inspired by all the build threads here I figured I had all the help I would need. I I have a quiver full of boards that work amazingly well, but there has been this little reoccuring daydream of making my own board for the past 15 years. I went up to Lowes and picked up (2) 4'x8'x.5 sheets of blue DOW foam. I figured I would do it the hard way.

So far I have cut each sheet in two length wise, roughed up each side and glued together. I used gorilla glue stretch wrapped it to the bottom side of another board. I will have to adjust the rocker to fit, since the master rocker belongs to a 6'6" and the new board will be around 6'2" but it is a starting point. Here she is all glued up. Now I just have to wait a day or two and hope I spread the glue far enough towards the ends of the foam to hold the rocker. If not back to the drawing board!

 

2

quit now while you still have control of your life!!!

; )

looking forward to see how this pans out.

3

I think that it have worked better if you bought one more sheet of foam, post the profile into the sides of the foam and cut it with hot wire.

Think that the foam it’s much stronger than the glue, so, it will probably force the rocker to become flat again. The way you did it it’s more cheaper but I’m not sure if it will work.

Sorry my english btw

4

you probably have about 24-48 hours to attach some rocker holding perimeter rail bands after you are done with this phase before you start losing rocker.

draw out the rocker on a flat sheet of blueD and cut out the bands based on the bottom rocker , cut out your outline then glue on the bands to hold things togethor as you shape the deck down. you can even insert a thin sheet of door skin ply as an additional stabilizer or build out the rail completly out of wood. 

the world’s your oyster at this point

go for it!

5

Lesson 1 - buy a blank:)

its a bit twisted but oh well. If it sucks once I'm done I'm not wasting money on glass. I will just chalk it up to experience and get some practice shaping.

I came home and added one more sheet to bring the blank thickness to 3". At 2.5 I didn't have much room to shape out the warp in the nose. I'm hoping I can place the template just right to avoid having the warp in my nose.

If I keep the plastic wrap on till I'm ready to shape I should retain the rocker correct? Then if I hurry up and glass it once I'm done shaping it will retain the rocker correct?

6

Once you’ve glassed the surfboard and it cures a bit, it’s almost impossible to change the rocker, for sure. The fiberglass is extreme (i mean, really) extreme resistent…

 

I think that the problem it’s in the glue. I have met a young shaper that started shaping with this type of blanks… First, he uses 3 sheets of foam, glued up with wood glue, just to have 9cm or 3’’ to be able to play with the rocker. He used rigid wood profile templates and atached them to the side of the foam. BE SURE THAT YOU PUT THEM EXACLY IN THE SAME POSITION, EACH SIDE. Then he uses an hot wire system and simply pass the wire by the templates. The result it’s preety awesome, I can guarantee you… The last step it’s cutting the stringer using one of the side templates, cut the blank in half and glue everything applying a lot of pressure 1 or 2 days before starts shaping.

 

I hope that in some way I helped you, sorry my english

7

we've probably have done 50 or more of these or so by now in all kinds of variations I'm still a fan of embedded horizontal springers versus vertical stringers

anyone can buy a modern blank and shape it

better yet just strip a beater and reshape it like we use to do.

making something out of nothing is one of the hardest things to do

but its closer to how they did it before someone came up with the idea of selling pre-made stuff

for us turning cheapo foam and free resawn/repurposed local woods into a reasonably good looking, high tech long lasting wavecraft is worth the effort.

 

and  yes it'll hold

but from experience it'll flatten the more you thin it out

part of the twisting result i would attribute to the way PU glue like GG goes off

I don't think you'd get as much twisting with elmers, roo glue or foam fusion from hot foam factory it just takes longer

 

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8

Makes sense losing rocker once you start to cut into the glue lines. I debated using a big bottle of elmers but decided on the gorilla. Elmers was way cheaper per the volume per dollar, but wasn't sure if it would hold the rocker in on the xps. Probably going to order some glassing supplies here soon just in case the shape turns out decent. I will post some more pictures once I get the template traced and cut out.

Oneula,

Have you used the bamboo glass from greenlight with an xps board yet?

9

What Oneula is talking about when he says horizontal springers is a sheet of woven bamboo wall covering. It comes in 4’ 8’ sheets. We cut out a piece that is at least an inch inside of the board’s outline, then route one side of the foam so the bamboo fits nicely. Then we glue the 2 sheets of foam together and use a donor board to get the rocker we want. We usually use a 1’ sheet and a 2" sheet, but sometimes we use a 1" and a 1 1/2" sheet. If you use epoxy, the blank will hold the rocker a little longer than a softer glue like Elmer’s or Gorilla glue.

I like to keep the 1" sheet on the bottom and the thicker sheet on top. We lay that up against the bottom of the board we’re trying to get a rocker from. Then you can plane a little off the bottom if you want get any twist out, but mostly plane the profile off the top. When you set your fins, you’ll have to cut through the bamboo sheet but it will hold the boxes solid. 

If do like my brother and cut the outline narrow then add strips along the side to get the right width, you won’t have a glue line along the rail edge. You can tape up a profile line and hot wire the rocker thickness off the top then go back and make your rail bands and finish the board quickly.

For a stringerless board, I usually go with double layers of glass top and bottom and give the rails a wide lap. I put a little bevelled edge on the bottom to make up for the extra glass wrapping around. 

 

10

Hi Foamball -

An alternative method comes to mind to add rocker to a flat slab or if it springs back after shaping...  See "Surfer Steve" advice on using sheet rock anchors and weights to add rocker to a blank... it's about 1/2 way down the page. 

http://www.surfersteve.com/polystyrene.htm

 

11

yup

I was one of brian's early swaylocks followers

I like what he is trying to do and still buy from him because of it.

the bamboo fabric is tricky stuff we never quite figure it out even after buying and watching brian's glassing DVDs

I guess Sharkbait and I didn't have the right stuff.

Roy's used it and figured out how to pull it tight using thread with no issues

we just used the double stick tape brian provided.

The bamboo jersey seemed to suck up resin like a that great white parched desert camel rider lawrence from the classic movie.

We think if you bag the glass on with perforated release film and a blotter pad you can reduce the resin comsumption of the end product but we haven't tried that yet. The only bagging of glass we've done is when we glassed with blue and silver texalium (aluminized fiberglass) and needed to use the bag to conform the stiff glass to the shape.

alot of folks have glassed with the bamboo and hemp fabrics without the resin soakage problems we've run into so it's probably technique.

If you decide to go with the bamboo jersey or hemp glassing you can get some high viscosity? epoxy from either RR or ResinX that will penetrate the fabric better than normal viscosity epoxy.

I have a blue core ironing board rockered fun board that we did in the bamboo jersey but remember everything we do in this style has at least 1/16"-1/8" of wood skin covering it before we glass them.

wood skinnned blue cores end up heavier than wood skinned white cores.

I like the feel of blue XPS it just feels more lively than low density white EPS and it shapes like a creamsicle

Also its pretty much completely hydrophillic unlike the more porous white EPS

but blue like carbon fiber will suffer great catastrophic snappage once it hits its exploding point. 

I also just like tapping on a shaped blue blank for the sound it makes and you can feel the rebound energy vibrations

12

13

Hey there…

What about a stringerless XPS surfboard but glassed with polyester resin? If I use 2 layers of fiber at top and bottom, the board will get enough strength and resistence or I must use polyester resin?

Oh, and I also know that the polyester “eats” XPS foam, but I found a way that it doesn’t :slight_smile: Ask me by Private Message if you want

14

Lots of good info here. After seeing the pictures of the springers it makes sense.I figured I would try to see if I was capable of making something worth riding with minimal investment. If I can manage to do so I might make another go at it.The vac bagging and hotwiring seems like the way to go on a lot of it but I have limited funds at the moment.

So with the inset bamboo do you glue both sides of the bamboo and then clamp everything together to the master rocker? Once shaped the bamboo shouldn't be visible at all, correct?

If I lose some rocker it might work out in my favor since I changed my mind on what I wanted to shape. I did see the surfersteve anchors for holding rocker in. 

Todays progress was getting hardboard for templates at home depot. I have been cheating on template design by using boardcad rather than a batten. Its the newschool (lazy) approach ! 

15

"So with the inset bamboo do you glue both sides of the bamboo and then clamp everything together to the master rocker? "

-Yes, that why we carve out a place for the bamboo to sit so both sides fit flush

 

"Once shaped the bamboo shouldn't be visible at all, correct?"

-Yes

 

BTW

I made a blank like this with a full woven bamboo springer back in 2004 and ended up giving to my teacher CMP. It sat in his shop for about 6 months before he got around to shaping it and it never lost it's rocker which was a surprise to the both of us. I guess the epoxy and woven bamboo mat really lock the two pieces of foam togethor. But again as you shape it down and thin it out it will tend to start to flatten out.

Back in the day there was some discussion among us compsando-heads about preloading the horizontal springer in a curve reversed to the rocker to create more pop upon compression. Seemed a little hard to do though.

16

i'm liking your project Foamball. where are you located?

17

"I guess the epoxy and woven bamboo mat really lock the two pieces of foam togethor."

Hi Oneula -

I've been told that gluing up three layers is one key to holding the rocker  Once you have the gluelines 'set' above and below the middle core, you have much greater stability.  I'd go so far as to say that the two slabs of foam (and the glue of course) are actually locking in the bamboo rocker.  Once the glue dries you have the classic compression/tension sandwich.

As with all sandwich composite sandwich tech, the sum of the parts is greater than any of the individual components.

One of my favorite examples is displayed on "The Board Lady' website where her simple demonstration shows how two pieces of paper (and glue) can add remarkable stability to a foam panel...

http://www.boardlady.com/sandwich.htm

 

 

18

Vac bagging shouldn’t be expensive. I made my own pump-system out of an old fridge pump. I know it is not so easy to find because of CFK’s (you aren’t allowed to take them out at a recycling place, at least here in belgium). But sometimes you can find a broken one of a friend,… the pump is normally still working.

But you have to build a control system because the pump is extremely powerfull, and gets really hot if it runs for too long, a simple on-off control is the way to go.

But building it takes some time too!

(search the archives for more info about the fridge pump)

19

There are times when we lose perspective … there is nothing much simpler or much more accurate in building than using a hot wire. It’s simply the best way to make a blank at this level.  When layering you add weight, build time, expense and lots of effort for what?  Nothing. This is a method which produces an inferior product … period.  And nothing is truer than when you stated, “The hard way.”  

As for vacuum bagging veneers, the process has been so streamlined right here on sways that it takes little effort to make a board which is vastly superior to anything you can buy in a shop.  I think perhaps focusing on the best build is what is needed instead of attempting to spin straw into gold. Sorry … bit of a rant …

20

Vacuum bagging is a no brainer. Super cheap to build a vacuum unit that shuts off when vacuum pressure is reached. Vacuum pressure switch and a Mac value. Buy your pump on ebay and retro fit it.

go to www.joethewoodworker.com  (Good references)

My pump is real quiet and only turns on for 20 seconds every 30 minutes.

 

It’s real effortless!