Aloha, Gonna make a board out of the Blue Dow 2 in. thick Insulation foam . I know about the gassing/delam. problems but am gonna try it anyhow. The gassing is caused by heat ?so I was wondering if I put the Foam/Blank out in the sun for a while would it gas off and have less chance of doing it after it is glassed? Gonna make it a white board with pigment and I’m pretty careful about letting them not get hot so what do you think? I have a Plumeria thats an XTR blank glassed by Javier and havent had any trouble …Yet… Thanks D.J.
Doesn’t your Plumeria have multiple little stiple holes to allow for breathing? The ones I’ve seen all have it.
Yes The Plumeria does have the “vents” in it in the deck . They are not drilled all the way thru but are intended to finish opening up from use … Your feet lile when you cause pressure dings . And the Gassing also is supposto open the holes if it needs it.
I know of several people that have tried methods like this. It doesn’t work. You’d be better off buying the surfboard foam. To date, we haven’t had any delam/gassing problems.
HDX is trying out some “new” foam. If it gasses, I’ll be sure to let the BB know
Here’s my take on the breather vents on the Dow/XTR, if it is closed cell and water(fluid) can’t get in, how is the “fluid” air going to get out
I think a Gore tex membrane can do what you ask for Jimi.
/Erik
Don’t take a board with holes anywhere near water.
What is wrong with EPS? Why is everyone beating this dead XPS horse??? We dumped this stuff 15 years ago and NO ONE will just let it die. Here’s the deal… XPS delaminates because, A. It is copolymerized with polyethylene which NOTHING sticks to and B. the blowing agent gasses are trapped within the cells. As soon as the cells are damaged the blowing agent is released and as soon as they are heated they will expend under the glass. Now the holes will release the blowing agent in the areas where the are holes, but, in the areas there are none you will still get delamination problems. This is especially true in the area of the rail where you push for duck diving. Also, anytime the board or a patr of a board, is heated you will get post expansion. This is evedent under dark colored labels and airbrushes and places like pin lines. Also, if the temperature goes above 165¼, EVER, you have stressed the cell structure within the blank and this will have an overall effect on the longevity of the board. It will reduce the break strength even if it’s not delaminated. 75% of all the boards we built (out of thousands) in Florida, DIDN"T delaminate. If your building in California that number will be significantly lower. The fact that XTR is coming out with a “New Foam” gives me the notion that the present foam, even with the holes is still falls short of their goals. Again, what is wrong with EPS? It’s inexpensive, tough, and doesn’t have the temperature restraints of XPS. And it’s available in numerous weights. And the water absorbsion issues of the past have been eliminated.
Quote:
What is wrong with EPS? Why is everyone beating this dead XPS horse??????? We dumped this stuff 15 years ago and NO ONE will just let it die. Here's the deal.... XPS delaminates because, A. It is copolymerized with polyethylene which NOTHING sticks to and B. the blowing agent gasses are trapped within the cells. As soon as the cells are damaged the blowing agent is released and as soon as they are heated they will expend under the glass. Now the holes will release the blowing agent in the areas where the are holes, but, in the areas there are none you will still get delamination problems. This is especially true in the area of the rail where you push for duck diving. Also, anytime the board or a patr of a board, is heated you will get post expansion. This is evedent under dark colored labels and airbrushes and places like pin lines. Also, if the temperature goes above 165¼, EVER, you have stressed the cell structure within the blank and this will have an overall effect on the longevity of the board. It will reduce the break strength even if it's not delaminated. 75% of all the boards we built (out of thousands) in Florida, DIDN"T delaminate. If your building in California that number will be significantly lower. The fact that XTR is coming out with a "New Foam" gives me the notion that the present foam, even with the holes is still falls short of their goals. Again, what is wrong with EPS? It's inexpensive, tough, and doesn't have the temperature restraints of XPS. And it's available in numerous weights. And the water absorbsion issues of the past have been eliminated.
That was most enlightening! Nice to hear an educated stance on XPS foam for a change. Thank you! Only one question though Greg, you say that the EPS water absorpsion issues of the past have been eliminated? Please elaborate, because other than vacuum bagging other types of foam around eps to protect it, I am still having absorpsion issues. Thanks -Carl
Carl, I’m not answering for Greg, I want to pass on my “I finally dinged an EPS board” story. I’ve heard the horror stories for years about EPS and the camel like porportions of water they inhale. Well, I finally got a ding. Actually, a friend dinged my board, but the waves were so fun, I kept on surfing.
When finished surfing, I stuck my board in the sun, so it would start steaming. I was really surprised at how little water actually came out. It was MINOR!! This was a board made with IDRO foam, so I have nothing to compare it to.
I snapped my board at Sunset and paddled the back half to shore, retrieved the front and walked back to the house and stood the 2 pieces up with the open foam on the patio. I was expecting a torrent of sea water to be under the board before long, no water at all. Now I wasn’t in the water that long after breaking my board, but it didn’t suck up any water.
Greg, for everyone who have held a piece of XPS foam it would seem like a perfect surfboard material. It’s lightweight, rock hard, hard to break and relativly easy to shape.
Some time ago, I came across an article about test of EPS blocks for use as landfill. After 10 years under water, only the outer 2" of EPS contained water and this is with the ‘old’ foam. So EPS does not appear to soak up all that much water. Still, the foam on my EPS fish is still wet to the touch after weeks in a heated room, altough it does not appear to weight more then when it was first done. The new EDRO foam is propably better though.
Hey guys. So the first test I ever did with EPS was submerge it in my toilet while I was working one day. I thought that I would have one heavy block of foam when I pulled it out later that day. But to my surprise there was hardly a drop of water in or even on it. I then thought every story I had heard was bullshit… some sort of anti-EPS propaganda spread by Clark foam if you will. But after more experimenting and research, I have come to this conclusion: EPS is fine by it’s self, but once you seal it inside of a fiber glass and resin shell, what happens is a vacuum forms. Because of the difference in temperature inside the board vs. the temperature outside the board. If you ding the board, the vacuum is going to try and relieve it’s self by sucking in whatever (water/air) through the small hole. And because the foam is open cell, there is plenty of space to fill inside the board.
-Carl
there is a additive(forgot the name) that is added to the production of EPS foam to prevent if from taking in water. before the additive, EPS did take in and hold water which was a big problem with the home construction peolpe. the EPS would some how get wet, soggy and then really moldy. now all constuction grade EPS is good to use in damp areas.
I hadn’t heard of the additive. I do know that EPS bead were, in the past, coated with a soap that acted as a lubercant while the foam was being processed. I always thought that the soap was part of the problem. My guess is that the additive is either a substitute for the soap or breaks it down. I do know that water absorbsion has not been much of an issue for about 10 years now. And certainly the EDRO technology improved things further. Thanks Ship.
i got a ??
if i want to experiment with a new design…is there any way to use another foam besides ur regular surfboard blank?
im trying to find somehting i can mess around with, but will last for a while.
dk
EPS is the best foam to use for prototyping. You can get it in alsmost any size and cut it into anything you want. You don’t have to worry about overshaping and it’s inexpensive. Boards also last longer than with urethane/polyester.
greg,
where can i find EPS?
is it at homedepot or other hardware stores, or will i be on a hunt. how much does it run?
i appreciate the response
djk
Greg- Thanks for the reply. Now I have a few other questions, what is EDRO technology, and is it part of all EPS foams that are sold, or only specific brands. If only specific brands contain this technology, could you perhaps clue me in? Thank you -Carl
An insulfoam distributor told me that EDRO is a European brand name of the machine that produces the foam. Not sure if this is true or not. The distributor said that everything he carried was EDRO. Furthermore, he said that he sells foam as flotation for portable dock manufacturers. The water absorbtion argument is bunk.
Gary