Would there be any benefit to pre-lam baking in a curing chamber to trigger outgassing before it’s sealed by the laminate? Any ideas what kind of temperature range xps will tolerate?
I had the same idea a couple days before;)
yeah, what surfding says all sounds right on to me. I made an XPS recently, and the only area I have any issues with is along the stringer. I didn’t wait 24hrs before glassing the deck, and got a few little bubbles…no big deal really. Just sanded flat, and went surfing…love hydro phobic foam.
will defo be doing another one. Here’s a picture of a “blank” going in the bin after shaping. Its a glue line perimeter stringer, and roughly 2 1/2" thick. I wasn’t happy with the way it turned out, so wanted to snap it to put in the recycling bin…not so easy
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I would put a small piece of XPS in your chamber with a termometer and see what temperature is tolerated?
120f is a good place to start.
im not sure if you taking the piss or not mate. but either way . yes im so clever i got married and had kids
what a genius
i thought about something simillar;) It could work to force the outgasing process!Just Puting the Blank on an hot day in a car, may be in an black bag or something!
Inovation is needed! And we will find a solution:)
Bufo Boards have found something to solve the problem! But nobody knows how! I have to drive to that company and look for an big baking oven:)
a wallpaper roller. it has little needles. or perhaps premash the foam
i think it would work in GLs timberflex with a deck skin. it seems that most problems arise from compression damage and the ruptured cells outgass. prevent the rupturing and you prevent the delam.
sure that sanding improves the mechanical bond! a surform finish would be even better . seal it with epoxy and cheater the lam over the sealer.
as far as heat goes … it theoretically shouldnt outgass if the cells are intact
so venting and all that stuff is a moot point. in fact the board should handle high temps UNLESS the cells have been ruptured
my guess is that delams from heat happen around pressure dents
solutions
prerupture and heat before laminating
dry lams and deliberate pinholes
reinforcing deckside lam with sandwich skin.( will also mean you dont need a stringer)
i think it has good potential . i will finish the one i started last year after i done this run of pu’s
You may want to check out Eric Zhangs XTR foam. I still haven’t got around to glassing it yet, but it’s the nicest polystyrene to finish off that I have come across. It’s not supposed to suffer from the delam issues that normal XTR suffers from either. I’ve also heard good things about it from other people as well.
Silly: I wasn’t taking a piss! I really meant that. I had luck with using various materials together along with impact cloth as so forth!
You know me better than that I hope?
I am having fun watching all the hesitation about glassing XPS? I have some boards older that 3 years that are still like new?
When I have some time I will make a video from start to finish to show how easy it is!
I’ve done a few XPS boards with various levels of success, I’ve tried to learn from each and this is what now works for me.
- after shaping go over the board w/ a rough grit sand paper like the surfer steve method
2.after you do this put it in a black garbage bag and let it bake in the sun for a day to encourage off gassing near the surface - instead of using extra resin in the lam coat I do a fill coat w/ just resin before lam.
4 after glassing drill out the little 1/32 holes about 1/2 inch apart all over the board like the XTR boards are done (they probably have the most commercial success with the material so why not follow them) - I also use wood perimiter stringers so I don’t have to cut the blank in half, also looks pretty.
my last xps board has lasted me 2 years now and only got 1 small delam after I let a friend borrow it and she left it out in the sun on the hottest day of the year. It was easily fixed and is far less ding repair than I would do to a PU board over 2 years. XPS is definatly my favorite foam to surf on. It is very responsive and lively and strong. I don’t think the foam tech needs to change so much as shapers process toward building with it needs to change.
And the blue looks really good.
cheers
question for shoeless: do you mean drill all those holes after the ENTIRE glassing process? I would like to try that if you have had success with it; I just wanna make sure that I understand you correctly. I tried a million nail holes in #5 BEFORE glassing, there are some pinholes on the bottom as a result, but the deck is balsa skinned, so no pinholes there. Haven’t even ridden that one yet because I tried to address the pinholes, resand, regloss…now there are only a dozen holes still as opposed to 100, and I am calling it done. Maybe I should have just left them all. It feels like a strong board just in my hands, so if it lasts that would be encouraging for future xps attempts. Yeh so please reply if you see this, thanks!
yeah yeah, drill the holes after glassing, but not over the areas where you have wood. you only need very tiny holes (a nail is way too big) so it doesn’t really compromise the strength. If any of your local shops carry any XTR boards, go check them out and you will see what I mean. http://www.epoxysurfboards.com/surfboards.shtml
I don’t see any advantage to drilling the holes before glassing.
cheers
all sounds like what I was planning for the next experiments…minus the holes…but…could be the trick…
if delams come from denting, why not just add a stomp patch instead of wood?
I’ve enjoyed riding my xps board, and it is definitely more lively than eps. Plus better to shape…
Check out the Bufo Surfboards! The have Boards (stringerless) and they are blue! Should be DOW XPS! And they dont make holes after the glassing. No Delam, it works 100%! I think small holes and scratches on the foam + may be outgassing could be the key. I will try to outgas the blank these days! I will try to put the blank in an trash bag with air and the sun will do the rest! I think it should work to reach high temperatures.
we should open a new thread! Show us your XPS/Epoxy Boards:)
my first epoxy shape, my first shape ever;)
Over 3 years old: Been to Bali, HAWAII, MEXICO, 2 SUMMERS IN CALIFORNIA - NO HOLES - NO DELAMS - FINISHED IN 60 GRIT - 24 HOUR WAITING PERIOD BETWEEN DECK AND BOTTOM LAM AND NO VENT PLUG. CHECK OUT THE DECK. NOW LOOK AT A PU THAT HAS BEEN SURF THIS HARD AND TELL ME IF IT’S STRONGER? IT’S A NO BRAINER!
THE BOARD LOOKS OLD HOWEVER STILL AS A LOT OF LIFE LEFT!
3 YEARS OLD!
NO VENT PLUG?
NO VENT HOLES?
NO DELAMS?
LEAVE FURRY (60 GRIT) - SAND BOTH SIDES OF THE BLANK BEFORE GLUING STRINGER - AFTER GLASSING BOTTOM WAIT 24 HOURS BEFORE GLASSING DECK - USE FRESH SAND PAPER WHEN SANDING AND BE CAREFUL NO TO OVER HEAT.
THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS NOT DELAM IT’S CALLED SHEARING.
BY THE WAY THE BOARD IS LESS THAN 5 POUNDS.
Looks great! I believe in your words.
You are my XPS-Pope:)
Greetz Chris
P.S. Hope to see more from your boards!!
Bullet proof at big OB, XPS core roughed up with 40grit & I poked holes.
[img_assist|nid=1030452|title=quad fin|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=346]
[img_assist|nid=1043213|title=rugdoctor|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=100|height=77]
Bullet proof at big OB, XPS core roughed up with 40grit & I poked holes.
Weight?