Good thread Surfding. Is this foam still a good choice for water resistant boards? Or are you doing it because you still have some? Lighter? stronger? thx
If the wax is melting, the board is too hot … that’s the rule. Not a product for those who are numb between the ears.
XPS is lighter, Stronger plus it’s real lively. It really is a good core and yes I do still have a few. After the Clark shut down I got a couple of double truck loads and made a lot of blanks (2 per billet). I no longer have a blanks production set-up like I once had however I still make a one off blanks from time to time. On the CNC they are really tricky has they will melt if the cutter head is rotating to fast. I normally run the RPMs at 12,500 for PU - 8,000 for XPS and maintain the same feed rate and for a stringerless you need to speed up the feed rate for the first pass or you will create a melt line. XPS is heat sensitive no doubt. I quit using it because surfers are not willing to pay for the extra effort that goes into making one. The customer that ordered this one was willing to pay the up charge ($100 more)I have some ideal builds with vacuum bagging and mixing different core materials for the optimum effect. XPS will definitely be used in the sandwich construction. I hope to start up my vacuum builds next month and will post pixs of the process. XPS does not take on water and does not dent like PU or EPS. We speak about glassing schedules and glassing materials however with forget about the most important part of the build, “CORE SHAPE”!
you doing it because you still have some?
I don’t offer it anymore. Re-visiting the material with the right glassing schedule under vacuum could have some merit. So to answer your question: Yes!**
**
any update Surfding? i'm itchin' to try an XPS and interested in how this one came out... =)
I’ve made a few hundred since 2005. Making a combo core next. Maybe I will post the build?
i'd be interested to see the build for sure
me too, please post…I have always been intigued in that stuff, and love the color.
Cheers SD
Hey Surfding, back again on XPS;) how you came under 2,3 Kg's (aprox. 5 Pounds), with 4 layers?
no stringer vacuum baged 4.2 [pounds
glass on fins no fin system
maybe I should build one with more detail and post?
Yeah mate that would be awesome. there is something about that stuff that I have always liked and I don’t really know why. ha ha
[quote="$1"]
no stringer vacuum baged 4.2 [pounds
glass on fins no fin system
maybe I should build one with more detail and post?
[/quote]
would be nice, i think i muss start to build the boards under vacuum. My first XPS/Stringerless [THX for help surfding:)] has a total weight of 3,5 kg aprox. 7.7 lbs
4 layers x 166 gr./m2 should be 5,5 oz per layer
Get your weight down under 5.5 pounds (2.495KG)
for Pro's 5.0 pounds (2.268KG)
is it possible do get the weight down by glosing with hand and not with vacuum?
with XPS go with a lighter glass schedule if you go by hand.
4 + 4 Deck
single 6 bottom
1/8 bass ply of bending popular stringer otherwise you need a rocker table and a vacuum press and more skin.
Sand finish
You be under 5.5 pounds
apply your epoxy warm or 24 C or higher.
By hand you can get them in at about 5.2 pounds.
Hi Surfding -
That roller tool is used by carpet installers for taping the seams. I was thinking of using it on the foam, not for poking holes in the glass.
great, thx surfiding:) i will try it.
have you got an good idea how to build an vacuumbag?
Still interested in this stuff. For a long time I've wished this stuff was less fraught with peril : especially because it seems like an ideal material for 1, bamboo laminates on deck and bottom, and 2, experimental finless designs.
But several people have said "nothing" will stick to it, so it makes laminating it using semi-traditional methods involve leaving it fuzzy, poking holes in glass, etc.
So I went looking again on Dow's website and here's some info I found that moved me a little closer to the 3 ingredient surfboard: foam, glue, laminate (pipedream?):
http://dow-styrofoam.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/729
I'm wondering if anyone has experience -- if using bamboo veneer is the way to go, or if there's some other veneer option that makes more sense, in terms of a sheet you could simply PU glue to the deck/bottom (treating the edges, somehow, right), and bang, it's done.
I'm thinking bamboo, although very durable in terms of exposure to water, soaks it up, and in addition to the weight gain, would lose adhesion on the glue side, especially if a really thin veneer.
Greg Loehr seems like a fair bet for an answer -- is he still around?
Also, have wondered for a long time if it would be possible to set finboxes in such a board (or any board) using (carefully) high-density PU pour foam.
Anyone?
Janklow I have made so many and I leave them fuzzy. 60 Grit Klingspor Cloth is as far as I take them.
You can lam them convention not problem.
We use Resin Research and E Cloth or S Cloth.
I have made 100’s of boards with XPS however that was like 5 years ago.
It’s a good material if you respect some of the methods.
I have a bunch of billets left in my storage that I need to revist.
Thanks for the interest!
Kind regards,
michael
You can lam veneer to it. I have done several. If you vac bag the skins, you need rocker support, but you could do both sides in one pull.
I hand laminate my boards. I’ve found that there may be more pin holes with the XPS but I don’t care, it’s not supposed to suck water. I do double layers top and bottom on stringerless boards, and they are lighter than a PU/PE. On the last one, I just laminated it then added a fill coat. I sanded the fill coat smooth and that was it. I think I stopped at 600 grit on top and 400 on the bottom. It’s a test to see how this will hold up. I also made a half EPS half XPS SUP, but it’s only been in the water once. Hope to get it wet this weekend.
I also did a cloth material inlay on one. On that board I have a few bubbles from leaving the board in the sun. Seem’s like this foam is not happy with heat, so that’s why I’m trying to leave it with pin holes. The board with the cloth inlay has a nice slick finish.
I have one more block/brick/billet I plan to use in the near future, and I just glued up a half XPS half EPS blank. I don’t plan on veneering either one. The foam cuts easily, but with a planer you need to take your time. It will tear the foam if you rush, but make really smooth cuts if you go slow. I’ll go fast to take a lot of foam down, but slow down to get the smooth finish. Then bust out the 60 grit 2x4 block and get it ready for glassing.
I was told that if you can glass in a temp controlled room you will get the best results. If the ambient temperature goes up it will make the foam gas out and you’ll get air bubbles. I’d like to glass one and only fill the areas along the rail where the laps are sanded, then see how it holds up over time. May not be the prettiest thing, but if it works, it will be a lot easier to glass.
A PU/PE board is so much simpler to make and you can make them look so good. These alternatives are good to learn if we ever run out of PU/PE.
My fault - I didnt emphasize enough I dont want to glass the things at all if i can get away with it.
I wanna shape them kinda thick + glue some type of durable veneers to the top and bottom … and away we go.
is this foam completely shapeless? Will it hold rocker?
Also thinking about setting fins in dense (hard) poly foam if polyurethane foams stick to the stuff like Dow says…
but that’s the second iteration.