On a 10’1"Y, is a 1-inch Balsa stringer strong enough by itself (without a T-band)? I’m about to order this blank, and I’m wanting a stable/heavy board with a strong stringer, but not TOO heavy. I’ve got to hike up trails with this thing. So I’m debating between 1-inch and 2-inch balsa—I want balsa, but it gets expensive quick…especially with a T-band. I’ve seen boards with 2-inch by itself, but I can’t recall seeing a 1-inch Balsa by itself. Is it strong enough? Also, have any of you made rocker adjustments to this blank (from natural)? 1/2" more in tail…1/2" less in nose? The natural nose rocker just seems high to me (for a classic nose rider). Any suggestions? Thanks…deeb…
On a 10’1"Y, is a 1-inch Balsa stringer strong enough by itself > (without a T-band)? I’m about to order this blank, and I’m wanting a > stable/heavy board with a strong stringer, but not TOO heavy. I’ve got to > hike up trails with this thing. So I’m debating between 1-inch and 2-inch > balsa—I want balsa, but it gets expensive quick…especially with a > T-band. I’ve seen boards with 2-inch by itself, but I can’t recall seeing > a 1-inch Balsa by itself. Is it strong enough?>>> Also, have any of you made rocker adjustments to this blank (from > natural)? 1/2" more in tail…1/2" less in nose? The natural > nose rocker just seems high to me (for a classic nose rider). Any > suggestions? Thanks…deeb… Put in the Balsa wedge. It will look like a Yater.
On a 10’1"Y, is a 1-inch Balsa stringer strong enough by itself > (without a T-band)? I’m about to order this blank, and I’m wanting a > stable/heavy board with a strong stringer, but not TOO heavy. I’ve got to > hike up trails with this thing. So I’m debating between 1-inch and 2-inch > balsa—I want balsa, but it gets expensive quick…especially with a > T-band. I’ve seen boards with 2-inch by itself, but I can’t recall seeing > a 1-inch Balsa by itself. Is it strong enough?>>> Also, have any of you made rocker adjustments to this blank (from > natural)? 1/2" more in tail…1/2" less in nose? The natural > nose rocker just seems high to me (for a classic nose rider). Any > suggestions? Thanks…deeb… i had a 10’1" made from this blank. i went with natural in the nose and +1/4" in the tail. kept a very wide plan shape and went for 3 1/8 thick. glassed heavy with 5/8" reverse t-band and 1/8" exact off sets. turned out beautiful and nose rides like no other board i’ve ridden.
I have always been told by the guys at clark foam that a stringer over about 1/2 of an inch is a waste. You gain no further tensil strength and you are adding weight and expense to the blank and they are a bit more of a hassle to shape. They look pretty nice, but that is about it. I would go with nothing more than 3/8", but it’s your trip. Don’t get too freaked on rocker. You can manipulate natural without too much of a hassle. I’m not sure what length you want to net out of the blank, but I would suggest cutting the excess length from the front of the blank. This will lessen your nose rocker, and push the thicker part of the foil forward, which is where you want it anyway. Rocker is a personal thing, I like my nose riders with no more than 4" nose rocker and 3.5" tail, with a low entry rocker. Good luck, whatever you do, it will be yours and that’s good.
On a 10’1"Y, is a 1-inch Balsa stringer strong enough by itself > (without a T-band)? I’m about to order this blank, and I’m wanting a > stable/heavy board with a strong stringer, but not TOO heavy. I’ve got to > hike up trails with this thing. So I’m debating between 1-inch and 2-inch > balsa—I want balsa, but it gets expensive quick…especially with a > T-band. I’ve seen boards with 2-inch by itself, but I can’t recall seeing > a 1-inch Balsa by itself. Is it strong enough?>>> Also, have any of you made rocker adjustments to this blank (from > natural)? 1/2" more in tail…1/2" less in nose? The natural > nose rocker just seems high to me (for a classic nose rider). Any > suggestions? Thanks…deeb… Deeb, if your really concerned about strength, you could laminate thinner slices of balsa together, or even alternate materials like a butcher block stringer or something. Two 1/2" thick pieces glued together is much stronger than one 1" thick piece. A composite stringer really hurts the flex factor on a shortboard, but your riding a long board, so flex isn’t an issue. Rusty’s website has a little info on laminated stringers. ( www.rusty.com ) Hope that helps. – Jake
I ordered 3-4 10’ 1" y’s from clark in melbourn fl. and do you know that not one of them had the same rocker specs. like the other guy said, what you do with the rocker will to a great degree be detemined by what you want out of the board. Poular concensus is the lower entry rocker the better the nose-ride. I had one that had a three piece 1" center stringer with two 1/4 " six inch off center side stringers. not only was it heavy but man…what a bitch to shape!. On my personal board i used a 3/4 basswood stringer with blue glueups for some accent cosmetic effect. Its on my website (from the address bar at the top of your computer screen delete what’s there and type in home.earthlink.net/~ohanasurf You can see it on the home page and again on the "current shapes and team riders page) JC
I ordered 3-4 10’ 1" y’s from clark in melbourn fl. and do you know > that not one of them had the same rocker specs. like the other guy said, > what you do with the rocker will to a great degree be detemined by what > you want out of the board. Poular concensus is the lower entry rocker the > better the nose-ride. I had one that had a three piece 1" center > stringer with two 1/4 " six inch off center side stringers. not only > was it heavy but man…what a bitch to shape!. On my personal > board i used a 3/4 basswood stringer with blue glueups for some accent > cosmetic effect. Its on my website (from the address bar at the top of > your computer screen delete what’s there and type in>>> home.earthlink.net/~ohanasurf You can see it on the home page and again on > the “current shapes and team riders page) JC Ahhh Jim, that’s nuttin’, I am doing a Channin, a 12 footer with an 1” T-band consisting of a 3/8" center, with 3/16" polycarbonate on each side, rounded out with 1/8" bass on the outside. The polycarb is so hard that I can only plane a 1/16" @ a time on it. I have a new set of blades in my planer and put frsh edges on my block planes. All of my finish planes have a rolled edge on the, so that they cut in the center, but don’t at the edges. It makes for for a narrower cutting surface, but leaves the cleanest work. I just found a Stanley #53 spoke shave at the Oceanside swap meet last week end, for $5, new tool! http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
Thanks guys. Special thanks for the suggestion on T-banding two thinner strips instead of using one wide one…duh…I didn’t even think of that. …So can I assume Balsa is as strong as/stronger than Bass? I know it’s lighter, but what about a strength comparison??? Danke…deeb…
Thanks guys. Special thanks for the suggestion on T-banding two thinner > strips instead of using one wide one…duh…I didn’t even think of that.>>> …So can I assume Balsa is as strong as/stronger than Bass? I know it’s > lighter, but what about a strength comparison??? Danke…deeb… Deeb, not even close, the Bass is hundreds times stronger than Balsa, but there is Balsa that is as hard and strong as many other woods. I often read Patigonia’s claims of Western Cedar being so super strong, but to the contrary, I used Cedar in the place of Redwood and all of the boards came back stress lined out, badly! It has an ability to flex, but way too much. If a board flexes enough to sense it in the way a board rides, the chances are it will break, soon. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
That’s good to know Jim, but what should one do if they love the look of a three stringer board with redwood offsets (if there is any left) and red cedar sucks?
While I agree with Jim regarding comparitive strength of basswood vs balsa, I question the “science” behind the idea that cedar doesn’t cut it in comparison to redwood. Any board will stress out and even break in certain conditions. An old photo of Peter Cole carrying pieces of a broken board with numerous thick stringers comes to mind. Chouinard of Patagonia did actual lab tests with a calibrated device and samples of different foam, stringer, and glass combinations. This is the only scientific study of this type that I’m aware of. The statement that Jim makes is based on rather limited experience with a limited number of samples and uncontrolled conditions. Amongst samples of the same species of wood (even Jim makes this statement re: balsa) you will find a huge variation in quality, grain, density, etc. Even (especially)the way it is sawn is a factor. We’d all like to get clear, straight grained, vertically sawn stringer material but that is not always the case. I’ve cut into stringers with knots, bizarre grain direction changes, etc. Go to any lumber yard and see for yourself. “Redwood” for instance is available in a number of grades - some is clear heartwood, some is shitty, knotty, soft stuff that doesn’t even compare. I’m not knocking Jim (I respect his experience, knowledge and board making skills) just questioning the conclusions he has drawn. (I think I’m overdue for my next “S.A.” meeting…)
While I agree with Jim regarding comparitive strength of basswood vs > balsa, I question the “science” behind the idea that cedar > doesn’t cut it in comparison to redwood. Any board will stress out and > even break in certain conditions. An old photo of Peter Cole carrying > pieces of a broken board with numerous thick stringers comes to mind. > Chouinard of Patagonia did actual lab tests with a calibrated device and > samples of different foam, stringer, and glass combinations. This is the > only scientific study of this type that I’m aware of. The statement that > Jim makes is based on rather limited experience with a limited number of > samples and uncontrolled conditions. Amongst samples of the same species > of wood (even Jim makes this statement re: balsa) you will find a huge > variation in quality, grain, density, etc. Even (especially)the way it is > sawn is a factor. We’d all like to get clear, straight grained, vertically > sawn stringer material but that is not always the case. I’ve cut into > stringers with knots, bizarre grain direction changes, etc. Go to any > lumber yard and see for yourself. “Redwood” for instance is > available in a number of grades - some is clear heartwood, some is shitty, > knotty, soft stuff that doesn’t even compare. I’m not knocking Jim (I > respect his experience, knowledge and board making skills) just > questioning the conclusions he has drawn. (I think I’m overdue for my next > “S.A.” meeting…) Ahhh yes, my scientific experiments with more than several different selections of Western Cedar in uncontrolled conditions (i:e. the surf, which is always uncontrolled) taught me not to rely on what I THINK will be sufficient for strength, but to use enough to keep the boards from flexing. They were noodley before glassing and I SHOULD have taken that as a clue, now mind you they didn’t break, but had a thousand stress lines. The Patigonias are EPS blanks and glassed with epoxy, I think regular boards should be done in epoxy, but it is such a pain in the ass to build epoxies, using all epoxy, that production would be next to nil. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
That’s good to know Jim, but what should one do if they love the look of a > three stringer board with redwood offsets (if there is any left) and red > cedar sucks? The Cedar will do, but as in any wood it needs to be wide enough to keep the blank rigid. The standard 3- 1/8" stringers is just a tad shy of what is needed, say a 5/16" or 3/8" center with 1/8" offsets. I have been working on experimental stringers, one is the “springer”, an all laminate of 1/2" strips, tapered at the ends and glued over a rocker form, like the laminated beams in churches and auditoriums. A purely one off system not intened for mass production and the X-Band, a T-Band of wood glued edge to edge at a 60 degree angle, split off from the sheet and then reversed so that the wood is counter crossed. I have the wood glued, but haven’t made up the sandwiches of it yet. The drawback I see is that in one direction I will be planing against the grain, but it SHOULD be really stiff. As you can tell I don’t like flexy boards, I think that when they flex enough to tell, the rocker changes and the board gets unpredictable as to where it will wind up in the turn. I’ve had a number of boards, that after riding them long enough to have them delaminate on the decks, that the became soft through the turns and didn’t have the punch that they had previously. IF you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit. That’s what I say. http://www.JimtheGenius@aol.com
To be fair, Patagonia uses multiple stringer set ups in a lot of their boards. I was simply sticking up for what I felt was a legitimate effort by Chouinard to identify the best materials. Hey - the surf forecasts are looking GOOD! I hope everybody gets their share and then some this week.