I’m going to biuld a beginners board for my wife and sister-inlay and niece and a tiny wave board for myself out of the 10’1"Y (10x24x3.5 (or as thick as I can get out of the blank after 1st time skinning)).
My question has to do with what tools do I need or should I get/use?
I got the Master Shaper DVD and feel I have as good an understanding on how to shape with a planer as one who has only used a planer to sharpen 4" diamiter pencils (post) (read: has not shaped before) can.
So would I be better off with hand tools? …but then the DVD did not cover that process, infact dicouraged the use of surform. Part of this is driven buy cost. I don’t mind spening money on anything that will make the job better or easier, but don’t want to spend money on unneed luxury items. I plan to built at least 3 boards and after that we’ll see; lets be real it will be more, but we’ll have to see how many.
Next question is do I need a high end planer (like the Clark Foam Planer for $225) or is a Harbor Freight ($39), Sears ($69-129) or Home Depot ($115-150) planer going to be nearly as good. Is the cheap planer (around $100) going to be better than using handtools or will I just regret the cheap tool choice? What makes a Clark Foam Planer better than many others half the price? Sure sealed bearings are great, but if I can buy 3-4 units for the same price?
Does the shaping 101 video cover the use of hand tools more?
Master Shapping seemed really good, but did not seem to be geared to the backyard builder. Thought Master Glassing addressed the home builder better.
You can easily skin a blank with a block plane. If you’re trying to maximize you volume out of this blank then skinning is all you want to do anyway. Most modern shortboard blanks don’t need more than this either. You can get away without a planer.
You need a planer of some sort, you’re just not sure if you want an electric or a hand plane.
A surform doesn’t replace a planer. A planer doesn’t replace a surform. Get both.
Don’t fall in love with the surform, know when to put it down.
Don’t fall in love with your planer, know when to put it down.
The two main differences with the clark foam compared to others are 1) the modified depth adjustment 2) sealed bearings. Sealed bearings are self explanatory. I’d stay away from getting crazy with the depth adjustment for the first couple of boards anyway. The only blank I’ve ever thrown away was the first one I did with my Clark Foam Planer.
If you could see the future, and see that you are going to get into shaping, then I think just about everyone here would tell you to get the Clark Foam planer, hands down. I’m assuming you can’t. Might be worth spending the extra $30 for a cheapo planer (extra - if you end up getting the Clark later). See if you like shaping. Gives you something to ask for for Christmas. I still use my cheapo for skinning my blanks.
Now the real issue: 10’ x 24" x 3.5" is huge. Bigger isn’t necessarily better for the beginner. Especially if that beginner is your wife or little niece. Come on, fess up 4est, this is all for you, isn’t it?
It’s a lot harder to make irreparable mistakes with hand tools than it is with power tools, including mistakes around body parts. Like the time The Old Man planed the callus off the tip of his left index finger with a brand new Skil. He had an amazing vocabulary, he did. Went on for quite a while without repeating himself.
And while power tools are much faster, the basic maneuvers, processes, strategies and techniques and the feel for the materials you learn with hand tools carry over to power tools very nicely.
You have time to think about what you’re doing and understand it rather than trying to keep up with the tool. When you stop moving, a hand tool stops cutting. And, as The Old Man insisted I do when I was starting out as a boat carpenter’s apprentice, when you’re comfortable with hand tools you can make the transition very comfortably.
Now the real issue: 10’ x 24" x 3.5" is huge. Bigger isn’t necessarily better for the beginner.
Especially if that beginner is your wife or little niece. Come on, fess up 4est, this is all for you, isn’t it?
This is a whole seperate thread. But since you mentioned it, is this not going to be a good beginner board for a 5’10" 170# woman in her mid-30s with average athletic ability, but desire to surf. She has been out in some prety unpleasant weather and had fun. She has not stood up yet but has paddled into open face waves.
If it is not I’ll build the right board for her first and then build my big easy tanker.
Hard to make judgement on board size until you factor in the kind of waves she will be learning on.
Long slow, uncrowded points, it’s fine.
Quick beachbreak, with shorebreak, or waves that go both directions…go 8’ x 24 x2.5 thick. She can’t even get her arms around anything that wide if it’s thicker, she will never be able to turn it to kick out.
I’ve taught unathletic beginners on my 7’9" Bic x 22.5, and every one of them sat easily, caught waves, and found the board stable enough…and itsa TWIN FIN.
It’s really hard to keep from pearling after catching a wave, with a 10’er. She has to angle off or turn immediately…then she’s not a beginner!
But go with your gut feelings, as you are responsible for your own decisions.
while I’d like to keep this thread on subject (tools), my thought on the board was this the board was for the true beginner to learn to stand on and ride to the beach. No need for it to turn (for them, I’ll turn it). When they are standing I’ll move them to a 7’-8’ egg like board or mini-mal. At least that is my thought.
The perl factor of a 10’ is a good point. My thought was on small enough waves the length would keep it from perling, but once the waves got a little bigger then they would already be on another board. Does this make sense?
RKelly–
Your right, on the 10’1"Y all I am looking to do is skin, cut the outline and turn the rails. So are you suggesting get the cheap planer ($40-70) range and use it to skin and turn rail bands?
As for other tools (surform): On the Master Shaper tape I think the only time he uses the surform was in the swallow tail of the multi (6-7?) stringer board. What/where should I (1st timer) expect to use the surform? vs. power planer and block plane (these I have a sense of from the video)?
No, actually my point was that if you’re only going to skin the blank then you could just pick up a block plane for a few bucks… look around, you can find them real cheap (and better quality) at a garage sale or something. A block plane would get the job done, but it’s a tool you will always use, I don’t care how good you get with Power Planer, you’ll still pick up that little Jack Plane or Block Plane.
The main reason I mention the board size… I’m 5’10, 160, and would say extremely athletic. I’m not the best surfer at the break, but I can hold my own on most boards, in most waves. My roomate has a 10 footer, triple stringer… It takes all I can do to hold that thing down in anything but ultra slow, dribbling white wash waves. Even then, I need to pop up fast, like on a shorty, and put ALL of my weight on the tail - certainly not something you want a beginner doing.
It’s just a common misconception that the biggest possible board is best. For flotation, of course, it is. But you have to consider, comfort and control. She’ll have to be able to get her arms around it, and turn it around outside. Sounds like a job for an 8 foot egg to me.
Hi guys, this planer business is a bit confusing… Some guys are saying get the clark modified Hitachi, others say any p-20sb will do and others still are saying any old planer to get started… Here’s my situation. Ordering a Clark planer from Seabase is prohibitivly expensive, 170GBP+ and shipping… The only local store with a P-20SB is charging 260 Euro for it… however the local hardware store has a Bosch PHO-20 for about 100 bucks… I took a look at the planer and it has a smooth rotating nob
for depth adjustment with soft clicks for every 0.5 mm, nice exhaust attachement nozzle (I am buying the Bosch vacuum cleaner/extracter as it works with my Jigsaws, sanders and router). The only thing I can see about this machine is that the blades are not tungsten thingy majiggy but they are inexpensive and easy to replace, further more the front “shoe” has a straight edge which I think may help clear foam dust away from the blades as you plane. In short I am in a good mind to buy this machine but I wanted to hear from yall if I am being a doofus about this or whether my reasoning seems sound.
I am just sort of wary for clark/hitachi badge snobbism…
PS oh and I intend to work with EPS and PU blanks…
I’ve never needed much of an excuse to go out and buy another tool. When I started I was told I needed a power planer. Never heard of a modified Clark or a Skil. I just went out and bought an inexpensive Makita and used it on my first 6 or 7 boards. It worked fine. Watched a pro with the Clark and he showed me the difference. I think the only important difference for a hobby shaper is the depth and ease of cutting on the fly and the smooth shoe. I’m glad I have the Clark(have two) and I use my Makita for doors and such. But, you don’t NEED a power planer as LeeD points out. It’s a grand opportunity to go out and buy one though! Mike
I have that Bosch and it works fine. Its only 90* from full-open to full-closed, so its easy to manipulate while walking the board. The only thing I don’t like about it is that the side button is there to let you start the trigger, not to let you keep it locked on (the opposite of my older Bosch). So if I keep it on & walk back & forth for a long while, I can get some serious forearm fatigue. (A bike pedal toe clip strap solves the trigger problem, but don’t forget its there and set it down while running.) I also removed the little swing-down rest at the back as it was hanging up on the foam. I’ve been in the habit of setting down planers - and hand planes - on their sides for 3 decades (ever since getting chewed out by my furniture-making grandfather), so I don’t need a tool rest, but again, you have to be conscious of where the blades are.
I also have the Bosch. I changed a couple of things. I added a 25 ft. cord to it, removed the start/block switch and tail block that Benny 1 mentioned and added a tail piece from a PVC sink trap to throw the dust at the blank so it shows me a clear path of where I am going. I am finishing up at board with it like this at this time. When the board is done I am going to modify the handle position. It just feels to much like I am ironing clothes the way the factory made it. I will post pictures of the mods when I get done.
After looking around I also bought the Bosch 3365 from Home Depot for $110. The smooth clicking depth adjustment knob & 2 sided ejection ports looked good. As far as cheap OTC planers go, IMO it was the most similar to the modified Hitachi. I also removed the little plastic trailing stand. I just duct tape a 1-1/4" Kenmoore vac extension hose to the ejection port then cram the Shop vac handle-hose into the other end of the extention hose. The shop vac handle- hose is kept in place by packing tape to a 2x2 beam directly over head, I just leave it there & hook up the shop vac to the end when I need to plane. A couple power-off test runs to gauge the reach of the power cord coiled loosely around the ext hose. Once I get the coil just right I use a long twist tie to secure the power cord to the top of the hose.
I would recommend buying a cheap planer that has a depth adjustment knob that you can set at 1 setting to get consistency on your passes on both sides. The surform will be much more important on your first couple of boards. Make sure you take it easy on the nose and the tail as most beginners angle the planer down and end up taking a huge chunk out. Also, don’t worry if the planer does not go all the way up on the nose on the top of the board. You can take it down with a block plane and a surform. Most beginners go up at too strong of an angle and create really deep and uneven facet cuts. Best of luck on your first board!
my first few boards were all done by hand. Learn those skills. Walk prior to running.
I’ve found that the most invaluable tool I made for myself was to get a VERY STRAIGHT piece of lumber about 24" in length, 1" thick and about 4" in width.
Take 2 sheets of 60 grit sandpaper and butt them against one another lengthwise so you have a sheet of sandpaper that’s 22" in length. Take the sheets and center them on the board and duct tape the opposite sides (the side that won’t be pressing against the board).
This in essence is a 2 foot long plane that you work with both hands to bring the volume down evenly. Yes it’s a slower process, but one that you’ll find very rewarding in the long run.
The sanding board coupled with a snall inexpensive hand plane to take the stringer down are all you need get your blank to desired thickness. In fact, that’s really about all you need ot shape the entire board.
my first few boards were all done by hand. Learn those skills. Walk prior to running.
I agree completely with Drew.
Look, if you are not a power tool freak, you have to learn both the joys of shaping and so on plus the …I won’t call them ‘joys’ …of that particular power tool. And take it from me, they do all behave different.
I own three power planers ( the Rockwell 653, the Skil 100 and the Harbor Freight plastic). I consider myself very skilled with all of them. Were I to start on a board project, in my case a balsa core flex kneeboard, tomorrow? It’d be hand tools. All of it hand tools, maybe a power sander for the details, and I have ( oh gawd) thousands of man hours in with those irritating little suckers.
How come?
Well, it’s new turf to me. I’m not Phil Becker, I don’t have several thousand, or tens of thousands of boards under my belt or in my wake. Take it slow, take it easy, be comfortable with what you are doing.
I can outboard join a boat with a power planer, a monfucious Rockwell 653, like nobody’s business. That’s what I do for a living. Among other things. Done it before more than a few times, and I will probably be hauled off to the boneyard after doing one last hull. But on something new to me, hand tools, so I take it in easily controllable small bites and don’t screw up my work that has gone before.
Every power tool is, basicly, a powered version of a hand tool. If you learn, understand and get comfortable with the hand tool you will be several giant steps forward towards going to the power tool. Go with the hand tools - and enjoy yourself. The time for the while of power tools will come…
I’ll third the hand tool first approach for all prior mentioned reasons and mostly because the power tool will do what the hand tool will do so you should know what you’re doing with the hand tool in order to make the power tool behave.
My first board was a pre-shaped, glassed, then stripped… uh… blank. I think I used everything on it to see what was up. I will say the first planer I used was a good little makita, good on wood that is. Needless to say I preferred hand tools most of the time. Last year I found this little jobber that was built ancient ago for Montgomery Ward. Big, heavy and the seller modded it by softening edges, depth adjust on the fly and longer power cord. It was like a light went on. I now look forward to using the planer and, as one would expect, the more comfortable you are the more you start to move into places you wouldn’t have dared. So… get comfortable. Figure out what you need/want to do, get good at it (comfy), find a tool that does what you’re comfortable doing quicker. A tool you like and trust.
I’ve never even seen one of those Skil 2000 things (100, I know) in person… I can’t imagine even touching one much less running one.
I agree with you, Doc: as long as no production necessities are concerned, a well-honed hand planer and a 40 grit sanding block (+ maybe a surform, but surforms are easier to make mistakes with than you would think) are all you need to make a perfect job.
BUT you must resist the temptation to just stay in one place and do passes that your arm length will allow, then move to another place up the blank: put a heavy sandbag or any other weight on the side of the blank you’re not working on yet, and do planer or sanding block passes from tail to nose and from nose to tail while walking along. (Whoever said: “No short cuts!”?)
That’s why the power planer is such a fine tool: you don’t have to apply any pressure with your arms and hands to make it cut through foam and stringer. Your hands are just precisely guiding the tool, not forcing it through the material as with a hand tool. Physical efforts are done mostly with walking, not pushing through, which leaves your hand free to do what they do best: make the tool go where it has to go, prevent it to go where it shouldn’t, angle it at the right angle, etc…
I’m working on an EPS board now with only 4 tools. I use a rasp and a surform to do heavy cutting, and a 2"x4"x24" block of wood that I stapled a 50 grit belt sander belt to to smooth out the blank. I like to take wide belts for a belt sander and cut them so they are long strips. You can do a lot with that either as a soft piece to work on the deck and rail contours, or stapled to a 2"x4" for a big sanding block. I have also taken blocks of wood and made vees and other shapes and run those across the bottom lengthwise to get a certain shape like an inverted vee. I like hand tools because they give me more control. You have to work a little harder, but you won’t be making deep gouges that a power planer can do. Other than the stringer, the blank is so soft that you can cut it down really fast. For the stinger I like to use the really small block planes, or a curved surform. The EPS I’m making now will have wood rails, so I don’t have to worry about that as much as a piece of wood down the center.
I think the most important thing you can do to shape good is get the right lighting so you can see what your doing. If you have a good shaping room, a power planer can make the job quick and easy, but you’ll still need to finish it with the hand tools. The electric planer is good to take the skin off. I use EPS, so there’s no hard exterior skin. Make sure you have enough space to walk along the blank and have the blank at a comfortable height if you decide to use an electric planer. You should also try to rig a system that can hold your power cable and vacuum line overhead as make your cuts. That can be a problem with the power tools. You don’t want anything rubbing along the rails of the blank as you go back and forth. When I make longboards, it helps to use power tools to get the blank down to the right dimensions. But, then it’s all hand tools to finish it. If you plan on doing a lot of shaping, getting used to the power tools would be helpful. Otherwise, it’s an expensive unneccesary investment.
