And why should you care? It’s 55,000 USD! So now you can buy six of them!! But is it just me or are they getting cheaper?
a CNC router is a CNC router is a CNC router…go build your own for about 3k
4 axis is a bit overrated for the complexity it adds. The main point seems to be to cut the full rail from the deck, but that can already be done with 3 axis and a ‘mushroom cutter’. I guess the real advantage is cutting the full rail without getting any angle wings as the router mount won’t hit the board so no compensation for that. But this can also be handled in software. “Maximizing material removal & finish by keeping the maximum cutting bit area on the boards surface” makes sense, but if you really want to maximize cutting performance, you don’t want to use a router bit where the center of the cutter is revolving around it’s own axis and the efficiency of the cutter gets poorer the closer you get to the center. If you do have the luxury of four axis, you could cut with a barrel like cutter, similar to a shapers barrel where all the cutting surface moves at the same speed or a disc like the aps where the outer part of the disc which moves at the highest speed does all the cutting. On the other hand, if you have a disc which is just as perpendicular to the surface as 4th axis will ever be you don’t need the 4th axis…
Bdw. building a 3 axis machine can be done for far less (and far more) than 3k. Building a 4 axis machine for 3k is a challenge.
For milling boards the 4th axis is better utilized for an extra spindle. You can get highly refined rail detail and exact rail contours with out a 4th axis. It’s all in the programming, if you are relying on slices and cross sections in 2D to create surfaces the rail contours will result in innacurate contours to your desired shape. The nature of the algorithms will always average the math and will result to a fuller rail line.
If you can build a commercial grade cnc machine for 3k that would be amazing. Just the materials for a raw frame work will cost that much. Then you have all the machining to square up all the framework. Then all the guides and ways let alone the cost of decent step motors. You also need a cnc controller and a good fixturing method with a decent vacuum. Then, if you are serious you need a decent cad program and you will have a learning curve to get an exceptional product milled. And this is just for no frills machine. For 3k me’s think it would be pretty rinky dink not suitable for production.
Yeah, not that I have a beef with soulstice, but 3k gets you a tin toy…
Josh
Quote:
For milling boards the 4th axis is better utilized for an extra spindle. You can get highly refined rail detail and exact rail contours with out a 4th axis. It’s all in the programming, if you are relying on slices and cross sections in 2D to create surfaces the rail contours will result in innacurate contours to your desired shape. The nature of the algorithms will always average the math and will result to a fuller rail line.
If you can build a commercial grade cnc machine for 3k that would be amazing. Just the materials for a raw frame work will cost that much. Then you have all the machining to square up all the framework. Then all the guides and ways let alone the cost of decent step motors. You also need a cnc controller and a good fixturing method with a decent vacuum. Then, if you are serious you need a decent cad program and you will have a learning curve to get an exceptional product milled. And this is just for no frills machine. For 3k me’s think it would be pretty rinky dink not suitable for production.
Hi Oak,
could you please explain why ‘averaging’(interpolation?) between cross sections will result in a ‘fuller rail line’? IMHO if there is a problem with the rail line being fuller or rather off from your intentions is than what you indicate with the cross section is always perpendicular to the stringer and thus is off from what how you look at (and feel) a finished rail. I think ideally the cross-sections should be perpendicular to the outline (but I guess that would require some none trivial math compared to the cross sections aligned to axis).
There are several designs out there that you can build for considerably less than a new shopbot cost claiming equal or better performance. 3k will definitely get you alot of steel, all the parts for a solid controller and some high quality stepper motors. If it’s good enough for commercial grade surfboard building depends on who you ask, but there seems like there are a few people who are quite happy with their modified shopbots…
regards,
Håvard
Does it have tool changer?
Quote:
Yeah, not that I have a beef with soulstice, but 3k gets you a tin toy…
Josh
i don’t disagree
and i very much subscribe to the “you get what you pay for” philosophy
which is precisely why i’m so appalled at the cost of CNC shaping machines
i have time to make 1 or 2 boards per month
if i had a rinky-dink cutter for 3k (translation: affordable), it’d probably allow me to boost that number up
and i’d be stoked
a production shop could surely build something suitable for less than 15k
maybe even more like 10k
and they’d be stoked
and do we not all aim for a more stoked tomorrow??
i’m just sayin’…
Right. If you went from 3k to 10k, you’d have a hell of a lot more than a tin toy.
At 55k, you’d have to make 500+ boards a year to justify.
Btw, you can also buy a very good, commercial quality cnc router for 10-15k.
Good for someone making less than 300 per year.
However you look at machine design is imperative in the sense of quality of finish,speed and set-up and machine capabilities.Anyone who owns,runs or has any idea of what a good surfboard cnc machine can do,will appreciate a smoother finish.There are plenty of machines out there,but until you compare cutting finishes then it narrows them down to maybe only 2.A fourth axis machine will absolutely leave no cutting lines on a board with the right cutter design,but this is definately more expensive than a 3 axis, however going 5 axis,i believe, is way overkill! Cnc machines are designed for serious manufacturers who need the consistency that hand shaping doesn’t allow at any volume.In my opinion if you are doing under a 1000 brds per year…don’t bother to purchase one unless you have the dough…but rather use the existing companies out there that offer cutting services.Shape 3-D has a free download version that is very simple to use.
The software to run it is 4k… A 3k machine I would like to see that one last through a days milling quality foam. I agree that 55k is not considered affordable for most… Both Steel and Aluminum has gone up in price…
Hi,
you could write the software for generating the toolpaths yourself (Well, I could anyway…) The controller software like Mach3 is $159. The typical use for a DIY $3-5K machine is cutting plywood, arguably harder than most foams used for surfboards. Design/Concept-wise they are pretty much identical to the DSD machine as they use steppers, a stock router and a gantry system. The shopbot standard with 8’ cutting area is $9k. None of these machines will be able to produce a 95% finished surfboard in 15 minutes like the $55-130k machines though, you will either have to cut down on finish or use more time, but these machine should be able to compete with the DSD machines both in cutting finish and cutting time.
regards,
Håvard
Building your own cnc router is far from trivial. I have been looking into it just to make a 2d router table to cut out templates and ski/snowboard cores. Yes, nowadays parts are widely available but you know what? a machine that has a long axis of say 1 meter is pretty cheap and doable but once you start talking running lengths in excess of 2 meters (longboard size and specialist ski/snowgear size) the materials costs explodes. The controls and guides at these lengths require far more precision than small machines. The toughest bit is to get the machine to “know” where it actually is and where the core material starts and ends. But then I am NOT an engineer so my views on the matter don’t benefit from a technical background like Haavard.
There are several designs out there that work very well and are cheap. One is the shopbot way where are roller runs on an sharpened straight edge like this:
This can be made from a piece of angle iron instead of the hellish expensive custom rails. Some DIY guys don’t even bother to sharpen the edge, the roller runs just fine on a square edge without any problems and the accuracy is insignificantly worse for this scale applications (on a $3-5K machine for shaping surfboards you don’t care about .01" inaccuracies). These rollers are roughly $15 pr. roller, so with four rollers pr. axis the cost is $60 plus two angle irons plus rack and pinion or timing belt. One DIY machine using this design can be found at www.mechmate.com
I think the key to a cheap machine is not to go to cheap as you no doubt will be spending more time ordering replacement parts etc. Even the mighty 80k machines can break down/have issues. Eventually spending well over 15k and enough time and energy to catch a few good days surf or more not to mention if an accident were to happen during the build/testing. Stepper motors have come a long way and have proven to work as good as brushless servos. They have benefits besides the cost savings. What is interesting is how mystified some have become with these “light duty” surfboard shaping machines. It really doesn’t matter what the machine does or looks like if the owner can’t recoop the cost per unit in a timely fashion. It would be better for the machine builders to consider this instead of 4/5 axis units besides most shaper still want to put their hands on the foam and with fewer board sales many have the time to do so. If you look at what MIki “the real aps3000” designed he was far ahead (4years) of the others as his cutter (4th axis) does everything buy cut swallow tails…
It may sound easy to build a machine sure most could build something that may look and act like a machine or buy an off the shelf router that has limitations but getting everything to work in harmony. Thats art!!!
Hi,
We have a new machine in the Netherlands…a DSD…
We will be happy to pre-shape for the Nordic shapers. 
We can cut shape3d files, and of course DSD ( SRF/CUT) files.
Our brand new factory is almost finished.
THX
Arnaud
Abezat surfboards
DSDpreshapes