Hi I'm in the process of planning and shaping my first surfboard, a 5'7" fish. I was hoping you might be able to give me some feedback and pointers on how to improve the design.
Quick Information:
I'm 5'10" & 150lbs - novice rider, ride in southern California, Mexico and the occasional visit to Maui.
No previous short board experience, I've only ridden my long board 8'6" - would like something to ride as an alterative in slow, fat mushy waves (3' to 4').
Located 1 1/2" from the rail & 4" from the tail (all measurements from tail of probox) parallel with the stringer.
Need suggestions on cant?
Rails:
I'm really not sure about the rails, but I've put together an idea of how I'd like them to layout (I've been reading greenlight Design Guide)
Back 8": hardedge
Going forward transfer into a 70/30 until reach the nose and go 50/50.
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I'm also considering a 1/4" V in the back 20".
How does this affect the Probox system and the installation of the fins etc?
Here is my boardcad drawing: I've also attached a jpg. for download. EDIT: I can't figure out how to upload and display a full size image of the board within the forum.
With the new blanks, there isn't as much density difference with depth as there was with the Clarks. If you want to thin the whole blank down, do it from the bottom while maintaining the stock rocker (if you are going to use it) or revise the rocker while you thin the board to roughly the thickness you want. Of course you need to keep the deck rocker in mind so there may be adjustments you have do do from both sides.
If the nose is too thick but the rocker is right, carve away at the deck in the nose without guilt because you really aren't going to spend much time standing up there anyway.
In a perfect world you want the crustiness close to where you put your feet or knees (when duck-diving). If you can't work the curves out during shaping and you have to thin out the deck-side, just throw some more glass on those areas (deck or tail patch) to slow the denting process.
Using epoxy means you can throw on more glass and not add more weight. More strength with less weight. You can dig deeper into the deck with less dents in the end.
Those are precise measurements. I’d go 15 30/32 in the tail instead of 15 29/32. See how that works. I’m kidding. I line up the rear edge of the fin with the top of the butt crack. Usually, 5.5 to 6.5 inches from the tips. That’s for keel fins and quads. Double foiled keels no cant or toe in for me. Single foils I toe them in about 18th inch and cant about 4 degrees. 4 inches seems too far back to me. I like the bottom flat and neutral, but a little vee wont hurt. Occasionally, I put a single concave between the fins only because my Lis fish has that feature. I’m very precise about the hard edge going off the tail, too. It’s the distance from my elbow to the palm of my hand. Usually about 18 inches. I’m not kidding. I usually put the wide point 3 inches in front of center. Mine seem to work pretty well for me. Except in slow mushy waves. They work good in small, fast, lined up stuff if it isn’t heaving too hard at the take off. Mike
If you have the Greenlight Design Guide, read the chapter on tails. There is a very specific formula for Fish Tails that details depth of crack, tip-to-tip distance, and swallow shape. It’s a proven formula you can apply to any length/width retro fish. PM me if you don’t have it.
njsurfer: I re-read the greenlight design guide and made a few adjustments to the tail as they suggest. I didn't change the width of the tail its still 10" or half the width of the center of the board as stated in the guide. I did increase the butt crack to 4.9" deep which gave me the 14% subtracted area. Thanks for the tip. I've attached a jpg. below for review.
paulcannon: I'm hoping my weight, I'm only 150lbs will allow me to ride a slightly shorter board - what are your thoughts?
stingray: thanks for the links, they gave me a good visual reference however the last link did not work.
rooster: sorry about the precise measurements, they were just computer generated as I was playing with the shape lol. I've decided to go with keel fins (I believe they are 7" long) & place them about 5.5 inches from the rear tips (measured from the rear of the fin) and 1.5 inches from the rail (again measured from the rear of the fin). I've never used the probox system but I think you can adjust the toe and cant after installation. If thats possible it would be helpfull as id be able to play with the setup - does anyone know?
Other then that I'm not sure about the V in the rear, I think I might remove it for simplicity & I'm still really having trouble laying out the rails, any suggestions or ideas would be great.
thanks again, don't forget to check out the revised diagram.
I was just kidding you about the precision. They were obviously computer generated. I don’t think there are many who can cut with that precision using hand tools. I do believe, traditionally, the butt crack depth was 1/2 the distance of the tips. 10 inch tips would be 5.50000000 inches deep. What’s a half an inch among friends? There’s no rules. Just guidelines. Do what you want and have fun. I like a bit wider tail and deeper crack. How many inches is 4.9 inches?" Answer is 5. I line up the rear edge with the tips. That usually puts me about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches off the rail. Close enough for this garage hack. Good luck and let me know if you want any board or fin templates. It will have to be snail mail and on paper, though. Mike
are you joking? At 5’10" and 150lb, he can ride a board as short as 5’4" for weak mushy surf. I have a 5’0" that I people who weigh 180lb+ have no problem catching waves on. They are in shape and can surf, but still. Keep in mind these are shitty eastcoast waves that have no power at all. Fish bigger than 5’10" are not fish they are whales. Randomgo, you plan shape will work fine, there is plenty of advice on here for your template. Wide and straight are fast but hard to turn. curves and narrow are slow but easy to turn.
the 5’0" is a bit of a dog(first board) but catches waves with ease since you can easily kick for that extra speed. but it is about 21.5 inches wide and 2 3/4" thick with a flat deck. As for a 5’4" for some one who weighs 180, and making it perform, I havn’t owned or shaped one but a 5’6"x 21"x 2 7/16" would make a wave catching machine that still had a ton of performance left in it. Keep the rocker low, and the outline balanced.
For whatever its worth, regarding the 3" length change, I don’t think the length is going to play nearly as much as the thickness. I’ve got a 5’10 fish that I shaped for myself and a 7’6" funshape I shaped for my wife. On a small day, I can’t catch a cold on her board, because its 2 1/2" thick, but my fish is 3" thick and I can catch anything on that. All the dimensions of a board are critical. Personally, I think we get too hung up on length.
Keep in mind rando described himself as a novice surfer. So, a 5-0 or a 5-4 is fine for a small fit guy that can surf. But, for a novice? I don’t think so. 5-10 a good compromise I think. He may find as he improves he can surf a smaller fish. I will say you can ride these boards shorter than your think. Mike
I didn’t tell him to go to a 5’4". I stated that a 5’10" fish is too much and his original size was a good fit for his ability and size. Too much volume is equally discouraging to someone learning to do turns as too little volume is to some one who is having trouble catching waves.
I don’t want to hi jack this thread…but I was wondering if someone could direct me to a source/thread for further education on this subject…I’ve been suspect of this relationship for a while but this is the first time I seen anyone make mention of it. …it’s of particular interest at the moment because my head has been saying hard turn but everything else has been saying on this wave…good luck. I’m on a 7’2" 22.5" 2 5/8" 7s hybrid fish/funboard and I just cant seem to snap the thing with my whopping 140lbs at 5’8".
...I just cant seem to snap the thing with my whopping 140lbs at 5'8".
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Oh man, I remember being 140 lbs.!!! Many meals ago hahaha! I rode a 5'11" fish back then. I'd scale back on board size if you're semi-proficient at your popup.
