This is my #10 effort. 6’6" x 18 1/2" x 2 1/2" Marko 1.9lb. EPS. Aluzine Epoxy with Additive F in the sanding coat (unbelievable difference in sanding!) 4oz. E bot. 6oz E with 4oz. E 3/4 patch. Single concave starting 2/3 up from tail.
Mahalo Swaylock’s for the resources, tips, and inspiration to make this happen.
More pictures.
Beautiful peice of work, brother… Let us know how it rides asap.
Can you give specific specs on fin placement, cant and toe-in? I’m trying to come up with a formula for shortboard quad (not fish quad) placement and am gathering both rail-to-trailing edge and stringer-to-trailing edge numbers, in addition to tip to trailing edges, cant, etc.
I see you’ve used the Vector foils…
Wow, really nice. I too am shaping a 6’6" roundpin, a little wider, and was wondering the same as NJ, Fin placement numbers.
Have studied the archives, McKee website, rusty interview, etc…
That glassing schedule seems lite, that board must be feather lite!
Did you spackle or epoxy seal???
Enjoy the Ride!!!
Beautiful peice of work, brother… Let us know how it rides asap.
Can you give specific specs on fin placement, cant and toe-in? I’m trying to come up with a formula for shortboard quad (not fish quad) placement and am gathering both rail-to-trailing edge and stringer-to-trailing edge numbers, in addition to tip to trailing edges, cant, etc.
I see you’ve used the Vector foils…
Thanks for the stoke! I’ve been reluctant to post some of my past efforts because I was having a hard time with the sanding. This is the first one that I added Additive F to the sanding coat and it’s like night and day. I could probably do another coat after the sanding and get a finished look but it’s just another step that I’m trying to avoid.
The theory that I’ve been pursuing is to try and marry the best of the quads characteristics with that of a thruster. I’ve always liked the look of the Bulkley quads opposed to the Stretch’s. Also I’m making the boards for North Shore surf and not trying to make a better skate board.
So far it’s been pretty interesting. I’ve been using different set-ups on the past boards and keeping notes on placement and riding impressions. The smaller the board and or the wider the tail the larger fins seem to work better. A 7’2" round pin that I made works great with the 3.4" trailers and the 438 Vectors in the front. I tried larger fins and single foils in the back but the board tracked. Using the double sided foils in the back I’ve gotten more of a thruster feel by using less toe and moving them in from the rail more than the fronts. Another note is that I’m not completely sold on the Vector 2 foil. It seems to work o.k. but a set of AM4’s in the front felt faster more predictable on a 6’8" round pin.
For placement I’ve been using the Mckee formula minus an 1/8" to a 1/4" on the tail to trailing edge of the leading fin. The rears have been set at 5 1/2" for any boards that have an 11" or greater “back of front fin measurement” after 10 3/4" I’ll put them at 5". To try to get useable info I’ve been mostly moving the front fins and adjusting the rears only in size of the fin. The 6’6" is 11 3/8" and 5 1/2".
For the smaller boards I like the feel of the fins mounted the same distance from the rail and with the same toe. For anything over 6’5" especially with a round pin the set up that feels good to me is 1/4" toe on the fronts 1" from the rail with 1/8" toe on the rears 1 1/4" from the rail. The toe is measured over a 4 1/2" line off of the stinger.
Cant is whatever the futures are set at. I think the fronts are 6 and the backs with the double sided foil are 4.
Hope this made sense.
The theory that I’ve been pursuing is to try and marry the best of the quads characteristics with that of a thruster.
I think five is where you want to go. Rode mine today on a wide small wave shortie and Im hooked. Look to Greg Griffin for some inspiration.
Very nice board…shape is very clean.
Thanks for sharing.
Craftee, you mean 5 fins, or 5 inches as the setting for the back fins…
5 fin poly fishes is a bit off topic compared to a 6’6" epoxy quad, but I would be interested to see a review of your griffin on another thread.
Still curios what other quad people are using as far as fin placement and whats working for them.
Peace
With all do respect, Im almost never off topic, and if I am, its usually in an attempt to make some of you laugh.
Read my post very carefully, it includes a quote from DPM.
THAT is the man’s GOAL.
Im suggesting he seriously look at 5 fins to achive that goal.
All my go to boards are advanced home baked epoxy composites.
In short, I couldnt be more ON topic.
If I may make a suggestion to you and other newbies.
Before you tell someone youre “off topic”,
click on the person’s username,
then click on “see user’s posts”,
read and learn a bit about that person’s capabilities and contributions.
Then with that information, make your own contribution.
Hopefully, you’ll do that without making yourself and others look silly.
PS - I included a reference to Greg Griffin, because his developments and products is what inspired me to pursue it. I like to consider myself a generous person who likes to give credit where credit is due. And hopefully, GregG will get an extra board order or two as a result.
We, the surfing world, needs guys like Greg Griffin.
Whoa, it’s seems you took offense to statement, bummer how fast and how defensive people get sometimes.
I read here alot, and honestly thank you for all the good info you have shared.
I am seriously considering a 5 fin(for small waves) but dont have a clue where to start with the placement.
(your advice would be most appreciated for a 6’3" small wave board I am building)
I too love Griffin’s five fins, I really enjoy alternative thinking in board design and construction.
I am truly sorry if I pissed you off, that was not my intention, at all.
For my 6’6" I am thinking 11 1/4" from the tail and 1 1/4" off the rail for the fronts and what I would really like advice on is where to place the back fins.
I am thinking just under 5" up and 2" off the rail. Thanks Craftee or anyone else…
The board is glassed light for a friend. I would have gone 6oz. bot. 6oz/6oz./4oz tail patch for myself. I’m also sealing with Qcel and epoxy. I tried spackle but it just didn’t seem right. The other plus is that the EPS is easily gouged and it’s hard to finish the blank so that it’s perfectly smooth. It’s stronger to fill the gouges with epoxy then spackle. I’m also doing the sealing the way I do the Corecell kiteboards that I make. Seal one side at a time just prior to glassing. I can seal the bottom and prep for the glass job and by the time the prep is done the seal coat is just starting to get tacky with the fast hardener. From there I layout my laminates and cloth and start laminating. To do the deck I sand the lap only enough to take down any sharp points that might snag the cloth and then seal the deck. If your good with the squeege you can fill the lap perfectly smooth to the deck. If I do any color work then it slows the whole process down. After sealing I’ll do a light sand job and then spray.
When I first starting laminating the EPS I went with the non sealed theory of being stronger but it just made it harder to do the lamination and was more difficult to estimate how much resin to use. Everytime it would be different because of inconsistencies in densities of the blanks. Now if the blank is sealed it’s easier to mix up the correct amount and have almost no waste or have to mix a quick batch to finish the job.
As far as fin placement goes from my limited experience the more you move the back fins off the rail the less of the “tracking feel” you’ll get. I think that it all depends on what your trying to accomplish and subtle differences can be adjusted with fin size and foil. To me those measurements sound good and if you go with a Lokbox setup you’ll be able to adjust the fronts in the sweet spot.
I did a 6’7" with 10 3/4" and 5" with both fronts and backs at 1 1/4" off the rail. The board worked like magic in the tube but was hard to do a snap or quick turn with. You really had to carve all the turns. By moving the backs in a bit and going with a double foil the boards release better and pivots better off of the front fins.
Since it sounds like your doing your own board it takes all but 5 minutes more to add and extra box in the center. That way you can have whatever you want quad, thruster, 5 fin, hybrid bonzer, etc.
In regards to Griffin If those fins of his look like what I think they are, I just want to know where and how he is getting the G10. I’ve made my own kiteboard fins with G10 before and the thought of shaping a set of Futures makes my skin crawl. The smell and the dust is noxious.
This is my #10 effort.[…]
Mahalo Swaylock’s for the resources, tips, and inspiration to make this happen.
beauty! I’m really diggin your outline. I just finished my #10 also, (besides eps/epox), looks like we’re working along similar lines & at similar stages
Excellent board, especially out of EPS!!
I’m curious about your rocker and the foil.
I’m going to be doing a step -up for a friend
to take to the Mentawais and was hoping
that you would share. I mainly shape longboards
now and haven’t done many shorties in the past
10 years.
Keep it up with the quad adventure, maybe George G.
will post on this thread as he has fine tuned some
awesome looking quads.
PS: I also like your logo!
Mahalo Bud! I take that as a serious complement. I think that you are envied by alot of backyard shapers for picking it up so quickly. I’m glad that I can’t take pictures as nice as the ones that you post because it would show some of the issues that I’m working on. I’d like to take full credit for my efforts but without the APS3000 software and the ability to create outlines I would be crawling at this point.
I also really enjoy your boards. Nothing like the look and ride of a good round pin. I just laminated #11 for myself, a 6’8" round pin quad. It’s a bit wider and not so sexy looking as the #10, but then again it’s for me and I’m not as slim and sexy as I used to be. Once it’s looking a bit more presentable I’ll post some pictures.
I’m also really envious of your shaping room. As a joke I should post pictures of what my shaping room looks like. I’m shaping outside in dusty red dirt under a shed roof. I’ve been contemplating shaping a board then rubbing it down with the red dirt just for the hell of it. If it rains hard enough the rain blows in on the board. I’ve learned to shape the rails early in the morning, late in the day or at night with a flood light to one side. If it gets too bright I use a technique that I used to see Dennis Pang do when I used to watch him shape boards. You stand the board up and let it fall through your hands. That way you can feel the flow and shape of the rails in both hands at the same time. It’s been my substitute for proper lights.
I’m lucky that I have the space and I’m saving my pennies to pour a slab and make myself a small shop. Shaping outside in the weather and the dirt is a very strong motivator.
Thanks again I can’t wait to see your next board.
Excellent board, especially out of EPS!!
I’m curious about your rocker and the foil.
I’m going to be doing a step -up for a friend
to take to the Mentawais and was hoping
that you would share. I mainly shape longboards
now and haven’t done many shorties in the past
10 years.
Keep it up with the quad adventure, maybe George G.
will post on this thread as he has fine tuned some
awesome looking quads.
PS: I also like your logo!
Mahalo surfteach!
I’m not at home right now but tomorrow I’ll get my notes and post the rocker and outline measurements.
For my foil I try to keep it a simple as I can. The Marko blanks are pretty close tolerance for the 6’8". I can’t do too many passes or the board will go under 2 1/2 pretty quick. I go off my max thickness and set my nose thickness to reflect the riders weight everything goes off of that. I just try to keep it as clean and flowing from end to end. One of the variables that I need to be more precise with is if I use 3/4" Futures boxes for my back fins. You can’t go too thin or you’ll router through the deck. If you look closely you can see it barely showing on one side. The box didn’t go through just the router bit. Seems that there is bit of a gap that is allowed on the jig for resin pooling under the box. A glasser thats helping me with the epoxy work gave me a few tips on fixing the mistake but I was being lazy and let it go.
Also thank you about the logo. It is a stylized version of a polynesian fish hook. I designed it off a tattoo that I have in Corel Draw and printed it on my inkjet ala Swaylock’s, thank you very much archives!
Hey DMP:
Thanks for the lowdown on the board! I am also
looking forward to a report on how the new board rides!!
I don’t know if you have heard of this tip yet for the
futures boxes, but you can use center boxes on the
rails if you have a thin tail. Sometimes I do this for
a thinned out longboard.
Have a great one, we had pretty good waves here in
Cali today!
BKB
Here is the low down. 6’6" x 10 1/4" x 18 1/2" x 13 5/16", 2 1/2" thin, rocker is from nose 5 3/8", 1 3/4", 1", 2 7/16". Concave is maxed at the tail and then fades gradually 2/3’s up. Concave is roughly 3/8" at it’s deepest. I also can’t be precise enough to control my tail rocker after the concave is shaped because I do it by eye. So the tail rocker numbers are done prior to the concave.
I couldn’t help myself this morning and had to ride the board, sorry Cam. It’s way to narrow and thin for me but I was surprised at how well it floated. The narrow tail with the concave and 3.4" rear double sided foils felt spot on. Super stoked that it met my design goals. Quad speed with just the right amount of thruster feel. Going to have to put a star by this one and try to do some scalling up and down.
