A Fly on the wall

General Discussion
1

I continue to read Surfing magazines sing the praises of Surf tech which always gets me to thinking about the so called Surf Industry. It’s been long enough for some of the contracts of the famous shapers in the Surf Tech line to be coming up for renewal and I wish I could be a fly on the wall reading a few of the changes that could possibly be taking place. I wonder if Surf Tech has begun to charge the shapers for advertising or produce similar looking designs without a shaper’s logo on them? Also… what happens to the mould if someone decides to jump ship? Does Surf Tech get to keep the design to sell as a Surf Tech model and no royalties? Do the shapers have any control where their designs end up?

If it’s like many manufacturing agreements, once the company has what or who they need on board to legitimize their product….things will begin to change and unless your making the company big bucks, you will have to pay to play. In the end when you enter the world of business by putting your product out on the market or your name on a prodcut….there is no such thing as artist only and very few rules. Only perceptions.

Still…it does make me curious.

2

Rich Harbour recently went back on the smurftech (because original surftechs at a local shop I saw were smurf blue and only that color until a few months later when other colors started appearing) bandwagon.

He said when he broke contract (Rich believed in preventing adding to the downfall to the shaping maket) the molds were not destroyed as they were simply just stored away. It was just they were not used to make his boards and the Harbour stock dwindled until it dropped to 0.

Since he went back into contract, they simply took his molds out and began to make them. He said if his following were to request more models, and there was a viable market . . . smurftech would request more molds from him . . .

As for details on charging / advertising / or actual agreements, I wouldn’t know. There is more on his website in his blog @ harboursurfboards.com (go to cool stuff and forum)

3

I respect Rich and many that have Surftech models…but I have wondered about the things in my post since they first started making the mags. I suspect no two contracts are the same.

4

My cup is half full on this one. It must be an honor to get the nod from the man to go to the big leagues. Look at all the players in the surftech stable.

It’s not like the other copycats who need the famous shaper to carry the line of lesser quality products. In fact who again from Floirda has a contract with boardworks??? The boardylady wedsite shows all the difference between the products with the cut away section comparing it to surftech.

Lets face facts though. Surftech doesn’t need the famous shaper as much as the famous shaper needs surftech. Yes, I do agree some have turned down the offer, but the choice only satisfied their pride in not selling out. It certainly didn’t help the bank account. But money is not everything and I really respect the few who choose not to participate. But those who do play, they are always assured of a consistant quality product, every board, everytime. Meanwhile back in Florida I would really be worried about my name on a board with inferior rails and finbox reinforcement. What a way to get recognition.

Randy French and surftech doesn’t need to cheat anyone out of what is due them and for those who don’t renew, would never contiue the mold in production. Why? Because it’s not right and probably not legal according to the contract. When you are selling 80,000 plus untis of composite epoxy, non vented surfbaords, you must be doing something right. Someone quits, a new up and comer gets a big break, and become even more famous and everyone benefits from the deal. Especially to customer now having the out of reach shaper in a surfshop near them.

Yes, I do agree contracts differ. Randy himself probably got a lesser cut on his boards since you described him as a “b” league shaper. Cuz all those “A” shapers get the real good deals right?

Again I salute Randy French for maintaining his popular stable of quality shapers. And yes the flies are on the wall at surftech. All the other copy cat companies… the flies are on the boards they produce.

5

Surf Tech’s quality is first class. I have no issues with the tech when it’s sold properly …not as something new and who cares about boardworks, the state of Florida or who has a contract. I don’t believe the 80,000 units and if it is true (which again I have no issue with)…I would like to say where your getting your information. If your trolling for another silly long debate that goes nowhere with the B league comment. I stand by my statement and will allow you to have your own opinion. He is certainly not a B leaguer when it comes to making money or having mostly satisfied customer. On that …I would say he is a major A leaguer. But hey…with 80,000 units sold nothing else much matter anyway. I 100% agree with your statements on the not selling out but having empty pockets. I had to smile when I read that one. There is no honor in not signing up with Surf Tech just as there is no lack of honor by signing up with Surf Tech. Like I said once you put a product out for sale…your no longer 100% artist anyway. Not if you want to make a living from your art. There are few set rules in business. Some pull it off at this point in the game…I think the future leans towards the guys who can put out product consistently and on time for those making their living selling the product. Custom guys will probably always have work until the imports look just as good as the customs and the perception of poor quality is gone along with the high price tag. Not that some of that lightly glassed junk is not crap for the money…but the imports don’t have the market cornered on that one either. Most of your major surfboard suppliers put out lightly glassed stuff for mass consumption.

Still…I am curious about those shapers getting charged for advertising. I wonder if that has happened yet on any of the renewals and as for Surf Tech making similar models and selling them. I am not making a statement of fact…just wondering. I seriously doubt there is anything in a contract keeping that from happening either…unless the shaper wants to buy his molds back.

other than boardworks…who has copied Surf Tech?

6

Advertising?? Someday surftech will directly or indirectly own all the surfing magazines. Either way the fee to advertise is built in to the price of the board wheter you know it or not. Just like any other business. Name recognition for a shaper world wide via surftech or pro sponsorship? Surftech is a safer bet.

I would be curious about those shapers who cut back on custom orders after the surftech or board works contract. For some it’s a perfect way to transition to a better lifestyle just for the ability to back off on the custom workload and probably make more money. Kelly Slater needs to design a board on a computer and have it made. The ultimate insult, never touch a planer and selling quality boards like hotcakes.

Who copy’s surftech?

It goes from the garage shaper to any large manufacturer in the world. From indonesia to czecholsovakia.

There are so many unique things about surftech technology that is favorable.

People on this site rip off templets of surftechs all the time.

I think there is a whole thread on making a surftech type board from start to finish.(except for the finish, weight, durability and shape it is like the real thing)

The ability to set the fcs and leash plugs and then capping the finish over the plug. It’s flawless every time.

The perfect fSC plug placement every time.

Reinforced fin boxes

Aircraft quality epoxy paint finish

seamless wood veeners

Total rail wrap of high density foam

and so many more,

But the hardest thing the recent eps trend has not figured out is how surftech goes without any vent plugs when using low density foam cores.

I salute Randy French once agian for setting the standard of excellence for even this board builders site.

Keep trying though, cuz Randy has set the bar out of reach for all big manufacturers and most of the hobbyists.

The things you “wonder” about seem bogus to me. Surftech doesn’t need the shaper as much as the shaper needs surftech. And that I make as a statement of fact!!!

I wonder how many boards surftech has made over the years. 1 million yet??

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I salute Randy French once agian for setting the standard of excellence for even this board builders site.

Keep trying though, cuz Randy has set the bar out of reach for all big manufacturers and most of the hobbyists.

The things you “wonder” about seem bogus to me. Surftech doesn’t need the shaper as much as the shaper needs surftech. And that I make as a statement of fact!!!

I wonder how many boards surftech has made over the years. 1 million yet??

Hey…it’s not Surf tech’s Tech. It’s been around for awhile. Also…I have never said one negative thing about the quality of Surf tech. I agree…they set the standard. I do hear some surfers say they like the way boardworks ride better…most of those are Walden riders so it could just be the shape.

Also…the things I wonder about can’t be bogus because they are just curiosity and I will bet you a dollar come true. If in fact the shapers need surf tech more like you say…it’s almost guaranteed it will happen. Shapers will have to pay to play. Human nature in Business is what it is. It’s not right or wrong only the way it has always been. However…at this point…I can name you quite a few shapers who have all the work they want or need and make a nice living without the headaches of owning a big corporation. Many of them don’t do Surf Tech and have no desire to. I have two paragraphs left on my positive Surf Tech post…I think you will enjoy it.

8

…80 000 boards is fake

is exactly fake like Clark foam 90 % of the world market, etc

you dont see any surftech around the world in proportion to the PU poly boards

windsurfers tech is not the holy grail to surfers

only the durability

fuck all the megacorporations

9

We all know the mags - no matter how pure they want to be - are influenced by their advertisers. Surftech is a big spender in this department. The reality is… Surftech and the mags are doing all they can to stay in business. They wouldn’t be very successful from a business perspective if they didn’t exploit all avenues available to them.

Shapers don’t pay to be in Surftech ads. Surftech is buying the same ad space each month. They are concerned about overall brand recognition, not individual shapers. They choose which shapers to place in their ads based on a “you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours” mentality. The more a shaper promotes himself, the more Randy will too. Surftech doesn’t want to waste their ad dollars on obscure shapers that no one cares about.

As far as renewing contracts goes… I’d be surprised if any of the bigger names drop from the roster. In fact I’d be surprised if the less known names drop too. Why would you want to ditch a company that sends you checks every month for a board you made once, years ago? At the start the deals were whatever the shaper could negotiate. I bet that’s not as true anymore. Now that over sixty shapers are signed on, the deal has got to be more standardized. It’s not like these shapers don’t talk to each other.

Surftech may not be the first to use this technology, but they have done the best job of creating a business from it. Their quality is good, they have over sixty shapers, over 250 models, and more dealers than anyone else. Their dealer service is also better than most other companies. When a Surftech sells, a new board will be in the rack within three days. Try three months for custom shapers.

As you said earlier, once you’ve decided to be commercial, you’ve commited yourself to trying to be financially successful. Randy has done a pretty good job of that. That’s an amazing feat, considering he’s done it making surfboards - the product with the lowest margins in the shop. Typically shapers have the highest expences with the lowest return. Randy has given them a way to make a profit by licensing their shapes.

He may make boards with no soul, but he’s done more to support the core guys in the industry than anyone else. How much has Quiksilver, Billabong, or Volcom given back to shapers? We all want to be able to feed our families. I’d rather do it from selling surfboards than working for da man.

10
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Hey…it’s not Surf tech’s Tech. It’s been around for awhile. Also…I have never said one negative thing about the quality of Surf tech. I agree…they set the standard. I do hear some surfers say they like the way boardworks ride better…most of those are Walden riders so it could just be the shape.

You’re back to the same old same old. You hear surfer’s say boardworks is better? Come on Solo. Cancel your subscription to the mags. Nobody’s done it better to date. Give some credit where credit is due, and make the best boards you can.

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Why would you want to ditch a company that sends you checks every month for a board you made once, years ago?

I’d agree w/ most of your post except this. Those guys might make one for the mold but only after shaping 5,000 before it.

12

…working for da man…Surftech may be will be da man

why dont you sell all your boards and do a complete surftech quiver?

yeah feed our families; jeez I see that some families needs too much…

3 days in the racks…3 months a custom (you say)

so is more important to you the money and business than the real good board, the deal with a great person, interchange, etc

(and Im not a S Francisco Hippie)

happend the same with a couple of surf shops that order boards from me

they dont mind about what type of boards, only wants money…money and more money

Surftech is a business, the mags are other and in my opinion, have only 25% to do with the surfing

is exactly like the Japanese motorcycles. They dont have nuthin to do with the European ones, but they re powerful, so you can see those bikes in mags and everywhere around…

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I'd agree w/ most of your post except this. Those guys might make one for the mold but only after shaping 5,000 before it.

That’s right… actually, it’s probably at least 30,000 before it. Randy wants to sign up master shapers with a reputation and their own cadre of customers. He’s not signing up garage shapers that make a few boards a year.

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why dont you sell all your boards and do a complete surftech quiver?

I’ve got three Surftechs… out of over thirty boards. They surf OK, but they are not my favorite boards. That’s not really my point. I like custom boards. I believe in the “soul” of surfing. I even have some SF hippie in me. I make my own boards, I custom order through my favorite shapers, I buy off the rack from stores I like… I got my Surftechs for free. Hell, when I was at Hydro Epic, I was a thorn in Randy’s ass. We’re over it now.

All I’m saying is… I don’t think it’s evil to try and make a living from surfing. I also think surfers should ride whatever they want. If you don’t like Surftechs, don’t buy them. If you don’t like crowds, don’t surf Swammies.

I’ve surfed for over 42 years. In the 60’s guys would try to get you to come in the water with them. Now everyone wants others to go home. I’ve never really believed my local spots belonged to me alone. I also don’t think I have the authority to tell people what to ride… just like I don’t tell people what to drive, or what to eat. Like you, I think some things are better - for the individual, for the planet, politically, whatever. I just don’t want to spend my time telling people what’s right for them. Besides… whether or not the “industry” survives, I’ll always be a surfer. I’ll find something to ride.

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We all know the mags - no matter how pure they want to be - are influenced by their advertisers. Surftech is a big spender in this department. The reality is… Surftech and the mags are doing all they can to stay in business. They wouldn’t be very successful from a business perspective if they didn’t exploit all avenues available to them.

Shapers don’t pay to be in Surftech ads. Surftech is buying the same ad space each month. They are concerned about overall brand recognition, not individual shapers. They choose which shapers to place in their ads based on a “you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours” mentality. The more a shaper promotes himself, the more Randy will too. Surftech doesn’t want to waste their ad dollars on obscure shapers that no one cares about.

As far as renewing contracts goes… I’d be surprised if any of the bigger names drop from the roster. In fact I’d be surprised if the less known names drop too. Why would you want to ditch a company that sends you checks every month for a board you made once, years ago? At the start the deals were whatever the shaper could negotiate. I bet that’s not as true anymore. Now that over sixty shapers are signed on, the deal has got to be more standardized. It’s not like these shapers don’t talk to each other.

Surftech may not be the first to use this technology, but they have done the best job of creating a business from it. Their quality is good, they have over sixty shapers, over 250 models, and more dealers than anyone else. Their dealer service is also better than most other companies. When a Surftech sells, a new board will be in the rack within three days. Try three months for custom shapers.

As you said earlier, once you’ve decided to be commercial, you’ve commited yourself to trying to be financially successful. Randy has done a pretty good job of that. That’s an amazing feat, considering he’s done it making surfboards - the product with the lowest margins in the shop. Typically shapers have the highest expences with the lowest return. Randy has given them a way to make a profit by licensing their shapes.

He may make boards with no soul, but he’s done more to support the core guys in the industry than anyone else. How much has Quiksilver, Billabong, or Volcom given back to shapers? We all want to be able to feed our families. I’d rather do it from selling surfboards than working for da man.

Kendell,

As usual very well thought out. I don’t agree with every single word…but I think you make some valid points.

On paying of adverstising. If I were a betting man…I would say it coming if it’s not already here. Surftech is now the business that the shapers getting the checks need…not the other way around. For a long time it’s been free advertising for many of them that were not that well known world wide. Also…Surf tech has approached some shapers who only shape a few hundres boards a year. The one I know simply didn’t feel like waiting on a maybe tomorrow…and when the call finally came he had already made another deal.

Yes…I think Surf Tech leads in quality with the Tech. However…I have seen some of those Santa Cruz boards and they appear to be the same quality to me. I don’t like the way they ride very much…so I am not expert on them from that standpoint.

I agree with you on Volcom, Quik and the rest of the clothing companies. Unfortunately Surf tech does business pretty much the same…they support the big guys at the expense of the little guys that brought them to the dance back in the day. Other than that…I agree…they have done more.

I still say for those that want to claim to be artist only and still have a surf tech model…you can’t have it both ways. Your either in business to compete, stay alive and feed your family or you simply have a hobby. There are two sides to every coin.