A world of fibres...

General Discussion
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If we were to make a list of fibres we can use in surfboards and their attributes, what would it look like?

e-glass - cheapest [with silane finish]

    satin finish = nice and flat because of the way it is woven, great for non rail finishes, little resin consumption on hotcoat

s-glass - stiff, for thinner builds, harder to wet out, tight weave!

carbon - [not a big favorite i fathom/understand, apart from looks and stiff builds]

innegra - stiff + maybe hard to work with?

Kevlar - yellow impact glass that needs UV protection, apparantly good for under the foot use/deck side use

Dynema - fishing line?

Hollow glass fibres - hard to wet out, dont know what advantage, apart from very little air inside/maybe better compression strength

Cotton/silk/rice - nice inlays and for prints…

  • FILL IN YOUR FAVORITES HERE + ATTRIBUTES/EXPERIENCES, ALSO WITH PREPEGS PLEASE

 

 

 

 

2

check google books for

Composite materials: engineering and science by F. L. Matthews,Rees D. Rawlings

 
3

Lots of good stuff here. For those of you new to working with kevlar a couple of hints:

 

It’s a pain in the butt to cut with ordinary scissors

Dont try to sand it, just goes fluffy

Bury it beneath something you can sand and hope that you never have to touch it again!

4

Hi, timely thread!

I just tried out four Linen or Flax fibre weaves today, really stoked with the look so far, goin to do the hammer test tommorrow or once their cured to see strength compared to normal glass…

Also a question for Fibre Gurus, is it possible to do a deck inlay/cutlap with pure kevlar? its just their is some at my local store which I think ill find hard to resist or is it just a pain in the ass?

Also anyone know anything about " Double Bias" glass weave? too heavy?, looks interesting, fibres at 45 degrees…

5

Hi, timely thread!

I just tried out four Linen or Flax fibre weaves today, really stoked with the look so far, goin to do the hammer test tommorrow or once their cured to see strength compared to normal glass…

Also a question for Fibre Gurus, is it possible to do a deck inlay/cutlap with pure kevlar? its just their is some at my local store which I think ill find hard to resist or is it just a pain in the ass?

Also anyone know anything about " Double Bias" glass weave? too heavy?, looks interesting, fibres at 45 degrees…

Test Panels:

6

Zylon is a polyamides aliphalique like “nylon” with higher modulus than standard nylon. It’s chemicaly near from kevlar wich is a polyamides aromatique.

You can see too: Syntex(?), Olefin(polypro), Dynel(polyamide family), xylon(=diolen=polyester),deeynema(=spectra=Polyethylène HighModulus), innegra (polypro) etc

All those “plastic” fiber well use can have good performance for composits. All those fibers have same problem: light they float in resin and they have bad adhesion with resin that’s why you need to bag them for best, perdictable performance.

Style of woven, or non woven, combination with other organic fiber ( like wood), mineral fiber or metalic fiber give lot of possibility…

Sorry for my frenglish.

 

7

jury still out with Innegra, love using fabric, 100% cotton is good but adds quite a bit of weight....Carbon is too stiff but when used right in the right board is good stuff, I am still tinkering with it to find where is best for me while not reducing flex too much ( can you buy strands or maybe 3-5mm widths ??? )....have used kevlar and carbon patches for foot patches with great results, expensive and glassers hate it....

fishing line ?, any more info on this one ?, uses, experiences ??  what about palm cloth and others ???  

8

While I don't have anything to add this looks like a good post.

 

9

I  like kevlar…Hard to work with, nice vibration dampening, puncture resistance, and strength to weight ratio…

I’ve used lots of S-Glass too, probably the best “all round”  on your list…

Kevlar would be better suited to the bottom and or rails of the board due to it’s tensile strength and impact strength

It actually fairs slightly better at compression (large heel dents for eg.) than good quality  E glass…

It excells in preventing sharp, point loaded impacts such as rock hits …

Kevlar is  very light weight, and if used with a vacuum pump or  pneumatic press, remains light and strong…Sunlight  on kevlar over time is bad…

I haven’t used innegra yet, but it’s said to have a lot of Kevlar’s positive attributes without it’s negatives… I’m going to buy some soon for sure…

I’ve used quite a bit of Carbon too… Great stuff, but too stiff and too $$$$ for what I’m building right now…

Here’s a link to some of them:

http://www.corecomposites.com/reinforcements.cfm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10

Kevlar on the rails?

11

check out ZYLON

12
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The Brasington brothers took up permanent residence in the world of advanced fibers 18 years ago. We've trialed about every fiber, weave, combo, lam schedule, etc. Getting us to talk about proprietary technology or the testing thereof is another matter entirely.

But there is a whole world out there beyond e and s glass. Most of it's not designed for hand-lam either.

14

Hey Marsh…

Sure… Kevlar on the rails is probably the best location for it, imho…

Why?     
Because it resists punctures,impacts with knees, rocks,dumb kitesurfer’s harness hooks, doh!!,
whatever, and makes these impact prone areas “bullet proof”… Well
sort of… Kevlar has better bullet resistant qualities without the addition of epoxy resin… .In it’s soft , dry woven form it “catches” the projectile, much like a baseball glove…

Where do you get the most “puncture”   type of dings??          The
rails, and the bottom… This stuff works great there…The bottom of the board is also under tension ( being stretched)  ,  not  in compression like the deck skin…      Tensile strength  IS  Kevlar…

You wouldn’t put it on the rails  for a desired stiffness effect, like
you would for Carbon perimeter rails,  you’d put it there for the ultimate ding
resistant rails…

That’s why  they use it on extreme
(lightweight) white water kayaks, although they use a lot of high tech
forms of polypropylene/ polyethelene  plastic now,( Innegra being one
form)   which I’m sure   Mike Daniel / Brasington’s.  are quietly working with,  in combination
with other great (glass) cloths…

Thermo plastics are the future, until the  Continental U.S. oil reserves dry up,  and they  then  start costing way more than Carbon…

For the average builder “dude”  though… S  Glass is pretty good stuff …And has never failed this builder…Top shelf  Glass  fabric!!

Kevlar’s   ‘’ quiet virtue" ( as in, you don’t read about it often)   is it’s shock dampening aspect  (bullet resistance)…   It seems to dampen hard , choppy water very well… A good thing to those kite boarding, or off shore speed boating  etc., in choppy waters…This is not something  I’ve read, but a quality  I’ve felt in my kevlar builds…

There are  NO  real secrets out there… Every material has it’s pros and cons… I believe Dead Shaper has used most of the exotics, perhaps he can chime in… High performance windsurf board building requires you to look  well outside of the  E- glass  box…They were doing stuff like  timberflex veneers 8 to 10 years ago…

Starboard windsurf boards were one of the early adopters of the wooden timber deck skins… Todays modern   Naish, F One, Slingshot  etc, and  many other kite surfboard manufacturers all use  wood veneer skins to some extent…As do many modern surfboards…

   Try them all,  and stick with your favorites…

15

Thanks Yorky… Great read… Zylon seems to be like a plastic version of Kevlar… My simplified personal observation of Zylon’s “tensile” qualities…

I’ll read on further!  Great stuff !!

BTW. All the best with your new board building facilities…!

Take care and watch yourself on those step ladders when reaching out to fasten dry wall… especially on the second floor…No beer drinking during ladder climbs…lol …

16

I guess me and my dumb ass friends also took up residence in that same  wacky world out there…We haven’t tried every chemical, weave fiber, combo,   Lam schedule etc…,     But we’re willing to try different stuff…Let’s  Go…

17

The Kevlar Coil is unscathed, just a couple of scratches. I was gonna post this pic earlier, in response to Rikds (who obviously has worked with Kevlar), because he could appreciate the work around the fusion install. Sanding the stuff this clean is hard.

 

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18

Yes Mike, that must have taken some serious work! I did a kevlar/glass hybrid cloth longboard a few years ago. It was pretty light but creased on the deck whilst taking a beating in a good wave. Needed more compression strength so a patch of carbon on deck and the thing has worked fine ever since.

It feels massively different from the latest longboard I’ve done which has a conventional glass layup but a 9" wide strip of UD Carbon full length of deck, makes the board MUCH stiffer although not necessarily better.

 

Wish I was a good enough surfer to understand “flex characteristics” which get bandied around here so often!

19

Hey!

Show us some pics Rik!

Wouter

20

Ok, but will have to take pics at the weekend…