About sandwich construction, advertised concaves and etc...

So… i pulled the trigger on a used shortboard and been stoked with the change coming from a bigger funboard, paddling and catching waves is way easier, really rised the bar for me.

Despite the funboard being bigger, I must agree with what some people said here, bigger is not always better.

Board dims: 6’4" x 20 1/2 x 2 3/4" , attaching a pic at the end.

Long story short: last year my intention was to build a balsa sandwich shortboard, not satisfied with what was available at surfshops and didn’t want to pay high $ for a custom from a shaper that would use the same materials that break etc. So this used board was for sale at reasonable price and bought it, when I get a decent board made by me will eventually sell it again.

Im about to start building my board with EPS/Balsa/glass and was thinking about using the board as a reference but reducing its size since despite paddling and catching waves is good, planning feels bumpy, I think it is something related to the big volume of the board for my weight (80 Kg), it feels so bumpy that some times my front foot got out of the board with the consequent wipeout when going for speed

When trying to do rail to rail, it was hard to maneuver, it felt like the board wanted to go straight only (using GMB-5 FCS which should be fine for my weight)

And… duck diving can be made but not so deep so getting in the line up sometimes is hard.

Having the three last things in mind I wanted to improve the board for me

As the SUPERbrand website advertise, there should be a single to double concave, took a rigid ruler and placed it in the bottom, but the concave wasn’t there, tryed several parts of the bottom, nothing.

Despite the concaves aren’t there, how shorter should I try to go? 

Bert Burger propses thin foils, wide boards, concaves deck and flat bottoms and do the morphlex thing. On the other hand, at sunova website there are models that are not than thin and actually have bottom concaves, so…? At first the idea of a sandwich construction attracted me because of durability but after long nights reading about flex, I was catched and I want to try to replicate something of it. on the other hand after visiting bert’s website it kindda confusing now that he IS using bottom concaves.

Moreover, saw a post on other forum regarding a magic carpet from sunova with BOTH deck and bottom concaves. My guess? subtle bottom concave and the deck concave is there to help the flex and increment the bottom concave when flexing, but just a guess. I think for the effect it is also necessary to overlap the deck skin on the rails but not the bottom skins so the deck force will be transferred to rails and rails will flatten and push to the middle of the board the bottom skins, because bottom skins have this subtle concave, they will increase the bottom concave because it is the easier path (like it would go the other way but you added the sublte concave to help directing the force)

I think that using thicker deck skins and thinner bottom skins also helps to this morphing thing, like 3 mm deck, 1.5 mm bottom. 

My guess on diagonal sheet placement?:

If put on deck skin it wil help transfer better the force to rails

If put on bottom skin it will help reduce the flex

But maybe not, since the magic sheet positioning is parallel both deck and bottom to centerline

At this point the name of this post was: Concaves advertised but not there! or at least cant seem them… but kind of got out off topic myself so changed it to actual name; like re firing up the discussion about sandwich construction and flex

cheers

rodrigo

 

 

Im posting some pics from Surfer forum, not mine

Dims: 6’0" X 20 5/8 x 1 5/8

Here is the original post: http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB4&Number=1355410&Searchpage=1&Main=1355260&Words=+TrouserCough&topic=&Search=true

My 2 cents:

  1. Forget morphing concave.  To my knowledge, it’s never been really demonstrated to occur. (No disrespect intended to Bert, which leads to . . )

  2. Don’t attempt to do make your own Sunova.  Bert’s stuff is phenomenal, but is it’s own complex mix of elements that you can not perceive on a computer monitor.  Instead, . . .

  3. Make a board based off the one you currently have in hand.  Make relatively small adjustments.  Keep it simple. You didn’t mention how tall you are, so it’s hard to make any suggestions as far as board length/width.  Shortboards don’t have to have concaves.  Flat bottoms work just fine.  Sounds like you have a good grasp of the compsand construction theory.  Have fun with all that.

If it was me, I’d just make a well-glassed stringerless, or better yet - stringerless with some cork in the mix.  Then I’d paint it, because unfortunately I kinda hate the look of 6 feet of cork staring me in the face.  But, as usual, I have digressed . . .

Hey newschoolblue, thanks for the reply. I have some ideas for experimentation on the flex thing but also planning on doing something standard as well, just what you have said, I mean a compsand but looking for durability and lightness not flex, no deck concaves.

Im 5’8" btw (176 lbs and going down each week), not sure how short can I go. At first was thinking about going 5’10" but maybe will do a first try with 6’0". Seems 29 Liters is the goal for volume from what I’ve read.

Looking at Josh Dowling boards he seems to be going for longer but maybe it is because his customers are mostly tall ones?

The trend seems to be going shorter and shorter, Im looking for something that works for me average surfer in average waves, and if that means longer, enough for me.

But like I said, my current board feels like a trampoline when gaining speed, and really fell off too many times when trying to do some carving not for lack of balance i think but because the feet bounced off of the board. Maybe it is just me average minus surfer :S

Balsa is in the mail from tower hobbies, to a forwarder in Miami and then to me. Weird? YES, you just can’t go to a shop and buy Paulownia or Balsa, simply not available. The R/C modellers don’t have it, the timber shops only work with heavyweight woods from Argentina or Brazil or crappy pine.

The plus side? I have plenty access to EPS and quite cheap, there is a factory and I can buy big blocks from them.

Futures fins boxes and leash plug ready. (futures fins thruster and quad set ready too)

Epoxi resin, Im glad it is still available in Uruguay.

April is coming, by far best season here. Glassy and size, want to have the new stick by then.

cheers

 

rodrigo

 

I was under the impression that most balsa coming into the U.S. is coming from Central and So. America.    You probably have other native wood available to you locally that would also work - and for cheap.    Importing wood from Miami can’t be cheap.  

 

under $ 200 5 times a year is free (on import duties) and this forwarder has low shipping rates so…

yes, the source of Balsa seems to be from where you say, but no one is willing to sell small quantities and despite Bs As is at short distance, going there would be more expensive than paying the fordwarder shipping

No, its not cheap but not killing

Native native wood, it is really heavyweight, we have something named Tacuara wich is something like a small bamboo bot guess because being so thin it doesnt make sense to transform it into sheets.

Uruguay is planting and harvesting big BIG fields of Eucalyptus and Pine for cellulose production, nasty ‘NEW’ industry we allowed to enter the country… no one is sure of what happens in the end with the soil after the drinking bastard of the Eucalyptus was planted several times, oh well. No Paulownia, asked about it (also for Kiri as it is also known) they are doing in Argentina and Brazil, not here :S

 

Maybe someone here already tryed this or it would be just a waste of time. Since light density EPS is a sh*t to sand (been there from young years of DIY free hand gliders) I was wondering if this:

In combination with this:

 

And some kind of foil template additions for entry point and exit point of the wire (where concave depth is zero) would provide a neat concave. Not sure if I explain myself correctly, here is a rough scheme of the idea:

The black trinagles are the shapes added to the foil template to control depth of the wire, actually Im realizing this scheme is showing a deck concave… doh!

Anyone tryed this? too much effort?

cheers

rodrigo

Mhhhh… on regards of the Sunova magic carpet, when looked at this board from firewire i instantly thought of: hello you deck concave you…

well Bert was in firewire…

Oh and look at the bottoms, quite deep

hey man im not sold on thin boards they are really hard to paddle . depends on your size and weight etc but the volume paddle rules still apply. you can use anything for a composite skin including mdf. yellow pine. different types of foam . cork is good as well .

 

Thank you for the advice mate