And this is why I love swaylocks.
About a month ago I decided to take a deep breath and relearn (actually learn for the first time) the fine art of sanding. I knew better, but always was in a rush to get the board pulled out of that rough block of epoxy I called a lamination. My boards always needed remedial help after sanding. I needed a better technique and a lot more patience.
I’ve been going back and reading old sanding posts. Then this popped up. Great stuff here. This pretty much is the capstone of all I’ve read so far.
Many thanks guys. I’ve printed the highlights and pinned them to my shop wall.
…Im with the Aussies and the simplicity of Resinhead.
That s not the best way to sand a board, more, if you build small boards with modern lamination schedule.
You do not even in the need to sand with 60 grit all the board if the board is a potato chip with 4oz
That s too much and weak the glass process.
For all those small boards with ligther glass, you start depending on WHAT FINISH you want.
Sanding is different if you want a gloss finish, a speed finish, a sanded hot coat or gloss/speed finish combo.
–We discussed these in older threads, you can search in the archives–
So, for that lighter glass work, if you ll put a gloss coat over it you can start and finish with 80 grit or even 100 grit on a medium power pad and normal speed, pad flat. Except for plugs, boxes, that you slight sand in angle with 36 grit, very little without touching the glass work.
Use smaller pad for intrincated areas or between fins ¿?¿ yep, still I make and do glass ons!
Use softer pad for rails and use lighter grit and very light “pulse”.
Finish rails by hand to get rid of pad corners.
-for speed finish start very light with 100, then 120 (a bit heavier), 150 (normal sanding) and finish with 220
Rails done with softer pad and start with 220 or 180; finish by hand
Then speed finished by air gun.
-for sanded hot coat (not sanded gloss) is the same but with more “pulse” in your technique and finish with 320.
Sometimes, you can spot coat UV resin if you note the fibers, then finish by hand.
Rarely you see this finish
Aloha Thirdshade,
Something to keep in the back of your mind, when preparing to sand that special board (any board), is that sanding the glass coat ''is the final step in the shaping process.'' Much can be influenced when ''tuneing'' the rails, especially in the tail. I start the block sanding process with a hard block of Alder or Pine, and finish off with a softer block of Balsa. If putting a sharp release edge in the tail, as on a Gun, I stick with a hard block all the way in that area.
I’m with Greg Tate; some really good stuff here! And as for the power sander on foam, it’s definitely not for the beginner, but there are a lot of experienced guys out there using them all the time.
regards, Dave D
I remember back in the good old days when I got my first job in a factory. It was 73 right out of HS and I had scored a rail sanding job for South Shore in Costa Mesa. I was paid 50 cents a board to hand sand about 30 to 60 boards a day. We couldn’t build enough Plastic Fantastic’s to ship to Japan. Talk about bleeding fingers. I learn something very early in my career was the more you could use the machine the less time you spent hand sanding? Trust me the production sander’s I worked for two of them didn’t think like that. The one thing I did learn was to watch, listen and learn from the master’s never asking why! If you had read my earlier post. I said that it was for a sand for gloss which is the only way to get a mirror finish. Hard pad and 5000 rpms with 40 or 60 grit is how you make it flat! Then I said if ya are sanding for fine sand finish you start with 120 or even 180. You start with 80 grit and a med pad at slow speeds your wasting time and leaving some pretty deep scratches. even after you tweak your way through the finer grits. The one thing I’m a stickler over is a shity lumpy scratchy finish that took a hour to do. Then ya have to grab your vibrator and screw around trying to fix your short comings. There is only one way to sand that be the Right way or your fired. I’m not trying to be a know it all. I’m just trying to keep it real. One more thing yes you can sand it flat with a slow machine and a soft tool but look how much surfing time ya wasted by not listening. KISS (Keep it simple stupid) I’m just saying! Now what did I do with that flipping Ax
so i take it that everything you say is it? no one else need bother
your very funny
any way you must be stuck in a time warp
new tech hardly needs old tech good pu which by the way you people seem to have none may survive
epoxy and alternative fabrics will be the norm the rest see china
and you might get a job teaching them how to use your grinder
**cheers huie
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Hey Bill Thrailkill,
When you block sand nose to tail on a domed deck, do you run the block lengthwise until you get to the nose rocker?
haaa’’ now your being very funny
cheers huie
[quote="$1"]
Hey Bill Thrailkill,
When you block sand nose to tail on a domed deck, do you run the block lengthwise until you get to the nose rocker?
[/quote]No, I hold the block at an angle, anywhere from 30 to 60 degrees to the stringer. Actually changing the angle as the contours change. The sanding equivalent of changing the cutting depth on the fly, with a planer. Hope that helps.
Hey Greg, I'm surprised you never went over to Larry Pope's and watched him sand. He moves so fast you might not be able to see everything he does, though.
Yes, it helps. Actually, it helps a ton. I guess I never learned the right way to sand. When I started, I was so concerned about shaping and glassing that I didn’t dedicate enough thought to sanding. Now that I’m doing more colored boards, and getting better at seeing deficiencies, I really need to focus on sanding. Up until now, I’ve hated sanding. With the info on this thread, maybe I can get better and then enjoy it more.
The key to sanding is a good if not excellent hotcoat. If you can lay done a proper hotcoat or the hotcoater you are working with is reeeally good; your job as a sander is easy. Knock down the plug and fin boxes or plugs with a hard pad or disk. A good hotcoat will let you start with 180 on the machine, slow or fast depending on your abilities. Hand sand the rails and you're done. Still see swirls; go to the next grit. All this talk about 36, 60 grit etc. tells me somebody can't hotcoat.
OK here’s a relevant question from a backyard hack. Say you’re sanding and you not quite to perfect flatness and you start having sandthroughs. I always have sandthroughs. So do you sand it flat then deal with them later (and how do you deal with them). Or is there a point where it’s preferable to leave a little bump, that maybe no one but you will notice?
You’ve mentionded that before, Mike, but I don’t know him and hated to just barge in. Maybe you could introduce us?
OK, I had an unsanded board on the rack this afternoon. I block sanded it with some 80 grit white Rinolox. Then went to 150 and beyond. It made a huge difference. Took me 2 sheets on the bottom and about 15 minutes of hard work, but well worth it. I’m a believer, Bill, thanks.
Up to this point I had only used a power pad on the flats.
Thirdshade I just wanted to jump in for the last time again. I hope some of my technics help ya in some way. I’m a production guy and not “Hobby Shop” so I tend to think different when it comes to building a board. My dad was the best Master Boat Builder by hobby. It was his dream boat a 40 foot cat around 1962. So since I was 8 I’ve been in the thick of things. I was weaned on Resin and played with “Sanders” saws planers and squares since before I remember. The one thing he did was showed me how to properly use them. Hence I have a need to share a lifetime of board building. I’ve been at this game for a very long time. I’m not trying to sound like a know it all. I’m just a Oldschool production guy willing to share some cool tricks and technics not normally shared with others. I think you’re going to find I tend to post with a little sarcastic shop smack talk. I mean no disrespect to anyone but I love to give people shit in a good nature way. If ya have any questions feel free to pm me and I’ll be happy to give ya my two cents worth. On another note I see your from the UK. My oldest daughter is at the University of Hull going to school for a semester. She loves it there and would stay if she could. So maybe someday I may need someone to show me around the secret spots. Last word Huie Huie Huie you shouldn’t knock something positive with a negative just because ya can’t or haven’t. I just got back on swaylocks after a decade because I though it would bring something positive for everyone. If ya don’t have anything positive to say I would rather ya keep it to yourself. This site has lost a lot of good people with a wealth of information. I think I’m going to stick around to keep it real every chance I get. Hell you may even find something I do right. I’m not always right but I’m not always wrong.
[quote="$1"]
''...hard work, but well worth it. I'm a believer, Bill, thanks.''
[/quote]
My pleasure. Always nice to get positive feedback.
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Respect is earned not deserved. Cheer up olderman we just got started. I to have a right to question a person negative vibe. I was born the dark but I wasn’t raised in the dark. This is a good site lets keep it that way! Shit I did it again another little lecture ? My bad