I’m about to start shaping my second board and I’m suffering from paralysis of analysis!
Would you mind checking out my fin positioning and letting me know if I’ve got it right? Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated; even on the board’s dimensions . . . I was wondering if I should make it 20.5â€.
First some details . . . The board’s a 7’0†x 21†(n:14.6". t:15.4") hybrid rounded-pin quad. I’ll be adding a bit of single to double concave. I want an easy rider that has speed and manoeuvrability.
It’s for my use in relatively slow waves yet have fairly long walls. Nothing over 5’ . . . beach breaks. Plus I’ll be using it on reef-breaks, from 1’ to 5’. I’m 50 and have been surfing for 30 years, I’m a surfer of medium ability . . . Getting slow on the take-off, but once up I’m fine!
The fin placement . . .
Rear fins: FCS G-XQs . 4.66†from the tail. 1.75†from the rail. 1/8â€toe. 4ºcant.
Front fins: FCS Q-PC7s. 12.25†from the tail. 1.25†from the rail. ¼â€toe. 6ºcant.
Any thoughts, rational and experiences much appreciated.
This is from a more performance-oriented board shaped by Robin Mair. Don’t know if it’s what you’re after, but the WS quads from Probox work really well.
I’d go with a swallow tail one inch notch. Make the tail wider. Slight single concave under front foot exiting out the tail. Simple.
Then the fins:
I’d use a G7 at 6*cant in front.
Set them in at 1.25" at no more than 12" at the back of the fin.
The rears at 4*.
Set them in at 1.25" at no more than 5" at the back of the fin.
Use FCS G-XQs in back if you want more pivot or go with G3 for more drive.
I like my fins out on the rail. My first quad I used probox to prototype my fin positions. Probox allowed me to move things around and settle into my fin numbers.
I’ve made myself two rounded pin quads with a center fin option. They don’t start shining until there is juice. And depending on the style of wave there is a strong argument to go with the tri setup. That is why I like the width that comes with the swallow tail for quads. The width supports all the fins and it adds planing speed. The round pin reduces the tail area and is great for sinking the tail to turn when the wave has power. It changes the rail line as well.
The net result of all this is really a hybridization of the fish movement and the shortboard movement fused into one branch of the surfboard design tree.
Look to Greg Griffin and Stretch for examples from the United States.
You’ve got me thinking about the tail now! . . . I was planning on going for the rounded pin to help smooth out my surfing and get away from doing a string of individual moves on a wave and move to a more flowing ‘connected’ style. Not sure if my theory is right? Maybe my style is just ‘my style’ and I have to live with it. I also liked the more curvey outline of the pin. But I’m certainly open to whatever’s going to meet my needs.
About that tail, wide is good, i like 15,4 inch tails. But you could also widen the outline and broaden the tail another 1/4 or so, if the idea of square appeals to you for its planing surface. When you use lower rocker as well, the board will fly. Round will flow better, and you can turn it more sharply, because it is round the last few inches. So even if it is round, but wide as well, you will not sink it that easily!!
Then use 5 fins, with a single fin box, so you can tune to the conditions or feelings you have that day.
Dont go Square, stick to your own plan, you will like it better, just because it is you own plan to start with!
Hey Monkeyshines (or anyone else for that matter), wouldn’t mind your opinion on these? I still haven’t gone too wide as I like to put the board on the rail a bit.
It’s not that I didn’t like the look of your round pin version, it looked real sexy. I made two for myself on sex appeal alone. I wanted as you said to make a smooth flowing ride. My personal results leave me to believe that all those fins do the same thing. So you need a wide tail. But as soon as you get past a certain amount of wave energy a wider tail will start to make it harder to turn. Hooking in the pocket of an eight foot heaving Aframe is best done on a narrower tailed. But how often are you doing that?
Maybe you need two versions of this board to expand it’s range. I built my standard short board as a swallow and a rounded thumb tail just to explore this very thing. Both quads except the rounded has a fifth box to option the trifin for conditions were hooking under lips or backside snaps seems to be the order of bussiness.
I never really liked the look of the diamond tail, but looks are hardly a reason to dismiss it as a valid design path. Its the width that’s important. I think that a notch like a deep curved swallow on a fish help you to roll the board over on rail. My experience leads me to believe that the fish tails evolved as a counter balance.
It’s all really crazy because a feature of one design might not work on an other design.
Trust me! this layout rips for up to head high! Drop me a line if you want the full board template on PDF. You can take it to Kinkos and get it printed full size.
One more thing. I’ve been really happy with knocking off 2-4 inches in length and adding 1 or even 2 inches in width. Then I’ve gone thin at 2 1/2 and taken foam out of the rails. The added width changes the game. Again think fish/shortboard hybrid. No more 18/3/4’s for me. Only on my gun.
Pull more features off the fish and you’ll have more fun. Pull more features off the shortboard if you want to rip.
Keep all the lines clean like your swallow design and it will go good for sure.
Well I’ve gone ahead and made the board pretty well as discussed.
It’s got a few imperfections but for my second board I’m generally happy how it turned out. I’ve only had a handful of small waves on it at this stage but it seems to go well . . . fast and free!
For the record it’s 7’0" x 20 3/4 x 2 9/16. It has a fairly deep (I got carried away!) single to double concave with a slight vee out the back.
Fin positioning is . . . Fronts: 12 5/8" off the tail. 1 1/4" off the rail. 6mm toe in. 6 degree cant. Rears: 6" off the tail. 1 3/4" off the rail. 4mm toe in. 4 degree cant.
Thanks for your help Monkeyshines and everyone else. Much appreciated!
Cheers
Monty
PS: If you’re interested there’s more pics at . . .
You did it. That board is going to go fast. It will turn too. It’s a rocket with four fins.
I think you could have years of fun refining and morphing this branch of the design tree. Think about all the different outlines, rockers, bottom contours that can be derived from the numbers off this board. The four fins with those numbers will work in 1 foot waves to well passed scary big waves. And the best characteristic is you have old school glide with new school turning. A very refined ride indeed.
By the way your presentation is real nice too! You have some photoshop skills as well…
