Affordable industry health care

General Discussion
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This will probably go over like a fart in church but I’d like to see someone, a big industry leader, like Quicksilver or Billabong somehow offer affordable health care (not free) to shapers, glassers and other craftsmen in the industry. -surfore

This deserves it’s own thread. The surf industry companies big enough for going public certainly have the capital and clout to work something like this up. Yes, not their core business…“shareholders” (investing institutions) might squawk a bit…but if nothing else if done right and reasonably it would buy the kind of public relations and core credibility that only putting their money where their mouth is can garner.

To be perfectly honest, if opened as a “surfer pool” in general it might even make some money for someone.

Nice one, surfore!

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I don’t think you can use “affordable” and “health care” in the same sentence.

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you can if the sentence has the phrase “through your employer” at the end of it.

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Quote:

you can if the sentence has the phrase “through your employer” at the end of it.

“through your employer” means nothing more than having access to a “pool”…having a large enough pool of people makes it profitable to insure even people with pre-existing conditions.

This whole issue in the U.S. is easily fixed, but sadly we have no real leaders on the national political stage. Surfers tend to have fairly unstable work histories. If somebody within the surf community or at least related to it or aware of it, who has the knowledge to do so, stepped up with some kind of plan to create a pool or PPO with national scope…well, let’s just say the insurers today aren’t losing any money.

What could be better than making a lot of money doing good for the world? Or even make a little money… There are quite a few people who’ve made huge fortunes off surfing in the past 20 years, who at least can move in the circles with people who could guide something like this to fruition.

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Finally, an interesting topic…

The problem is that there is no major organization for surfboard builders. If there was such a thing, the governing body could negotiate health plans for its members. But, I just checked out the number of members on this forum: 9800. That’s a lot of members that can wield some clout (and some bucks). Swaylocks can form its own organization and negotiate with the health care providers.

Then again, most of the health care providers are regional. Swaylocks will have members outside the service zone of any given provider, and they would not likely opt into the program.

Having paid for my own individual health plan ($800/mo) for a period of time, I can see how important this issue can be for a small company or shaper on their own.

CoWaBunGA

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in order to get coverage, you would need to organize = essentially unionize. people would need to give up some autonomy in order to collectively bargain for a mutual benefit.

it’s hard for some of the guys on this site to agree about the time of day… i doubt that what you’re suggesting is feasible.

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Quote:

it’s hard for some of the guys on this site to agree about the time of day… i doubt that what you’re suggesting is feasible.

No kidding, it’s like herding cats… :slight_smile:

Well, the membership of this forum covers the world - that’s unwieldy to unionize, organize. What if the forum members in say California got together and formed a Swaylocks-CA organization, charged $5 to join, and then negotiated with Kaiser Permanente for a group plan?

Wouldn’t that work? Or are surfers/shapers just too busy surfing/shaping to care about health care?

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Surfrider Foundation has a lot more members - and political experience - than any other surf-related organization. Anyone on here a Surfrider Chapter officer? I think its an idea worth pursuing.

Insurers want pools of people with low risk, and then the premiums keep coming in with few payouts. I suspect that they would look favorably on surfers - being generally young, in better shape than the population at large, and likely (demographically) not to face the risks of the undereducated working class such as industrial accidents. The key would be getting enough young guys into the pool to offset the costs of claims like Wayne’s.

Edit: By the way, a pool of insureds has absolutely nothing to do with unionizing, and using the two concepts interchangeably will likely turn off 50% of the audience. And if your audience is shapers & glassers - largely entrepreneurial businesspeople - the number will probably be over 90%. You start talking unions (Unions) and next thing you know, some warehousemen’s union has gone around & organized all the employees of shaping & glassing shops… and there’s nothing that would put all the small guys out of business faster than that.

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Surfrider…there’s another good idea. And that made me think about credit unions that I see in California…I know nothing about them but they appear to be locally/small in origin but stable…perhaps there is some kind of model there.

Yes, this subject would probably be limited to surfers in the U.S., as most of the rest of the “civilized world” is already way ahead of the U.S. when it comes to health care. People in Commonwealth countries may have a hard time grasping the extent of insanity and dysfunction in U.S. healthcare. It’s basically chaos times 50 plus the territories. Some states actually make it illegal to not have health insurance, although they do not mandate that all insurance companies offer policies for sale to all people. Talk about herding cats…that’s like making it illegal to be poor, then fining the living crap out of you until you get rich.

I ding away at the “surf industry” a lot, but I know most of the people involved are okay. Something like this, made available primarily for surfers (and how that would be accomplished I don’t know - might even be better to have it more open), would be a huge legacy.

Nels

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The answer is so clear I can’t believe no one else has brought it up…

UNIVERSAL HEALTH INSURANCE

Everybody (not just myopic self centered surfers) is covered. Michael Moore can be a putz but check the movie 'Sicko" for one person’s view.

In this country (US) we have some of the most advanced medical technology on the planet. It’s really time all of us had access to it.

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i agree that organizing a union and organizing a pool of insureds are different animals.

if organizing a pool of insureds was the goal, i think the deal would turn sour once the younger guys realized that they were subsidizing the older guys. and young single guys subsidizing guys who are married and have kids.

i’ve been involved in a few benefits discussions at a large company and these are some of the gripes that come up.

it would be nice if the healthcare thing could be worked out. i think it would be a great thing. just playing devil’s advocate.

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A pool is not the same as flat-rate, so the subsidizing isn’t really an issue. I know lots of young guys who have blown out a knee or something (my buddy Lee was bitten by a shark, for example), so if the cost was $150-200 a month or so, maybe for catastrophic / major care only (policies can be written like that) I think there would be a lot of takers.

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Quote:

The answer is so clear I can’t believe no one else has brought it up…

UNIVERSAL HEALTH INSURANCE

Everybody (not just myopic self centered surfers) is covered. Michael Moore can be a putz but check the movie 'Sicko" for one person’s view.

In this country (US) we have some of the most advanced medical technology on the planet. It’s really time all of us had access to it.

Cue the can opener…

Who pays for universal health care? I sure don’t want to, I’m already funding more social programs than I’d like. There’s absolutely a need for the most unfortunate of our citizens to be looked after by the society at large, but I see far too many people who use our social welfare programs as a means to do as little as possible. Given the choice to work or starve, what do you think they’d do?

That’s another subject entirely, but back on track, as a healthcare professional I think universal health care is a joke. It’ll be another drain on the productive by the unproductive, with poor quality service being provided to boot! Besides, we already have health services for the needy. It’s called the ER. God knows enough people use it as their personal free doctor’s office.

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As a solution, I think our government should be talking about affordable heathcare insurance. Something still based upon the risk of your health status and preexisting conditions, but that takes out the hyper-profitability of insurance companies. Ultimately, though, something that you pay for yourself. It could be on an income sliding scale, too… But in my “perfect world” scenario, the guy who has a low income because he doesn’t work and can get away with it would NOT be paying the same rate as the guy who can’t work because of a real disability.

Now that I’m ranting, there’s a LOT of people out there on disability who could do SOMETHING productive and get paid for it…

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well how bout swaylox members negitiating for insurance/

why do you need an industry/

all you need is a group and a pirate to buy the insursnce from

loyds of london and then split the cost.

the way insurance works…

is one guy bets nobody will get sick

and a bunch of guys bet they will get sick.

the big better is LOYDS OF LONDON

the sell big blocks of insursnce

to smaller companys and

then they resell smaller units.

sombody takes the risk.

they set the rate

and all the guys in line make a mark up.

if nobody gets sick the rates go down.

if lotsa guys get sick and claim like crazy the rates go balistic.

easy every body bet they will get sick then dont…

cheap insurance.

the problem----- ever body has been making the BIG B I G C L A I M S

and it is very spensive Lucy for the company

to provide Insurance.

ok now take a deep breath

bet you wont get sick

and spend your insurance

premium money on some healthful food and

lifestyle choices…?

sound ok?

ok.

plan on getting sick?

get a corperate job and show up a lot and

make your self sick so the insurancee-job is your best life-choice.

back to insurance

tell the health care provider

that swaylocks guys dont get sick

and they wont make unreasonable claims

we will have it locked up.

but one greedy puck gets an interminable and expensive condition

and then it’ll go south…

How bout mexican Insurance…?

maybe just the decal on the window

will be the appropriate talisman

for healthy long life…

…ambrose…

uninsured ,healthy,late for work every day

or early depending on wether I’m arguing

with my wife.

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Universal healthcare is the way to go. I know a lot of people are worried about where the funding is going to come from, but all we need to look at right now is the plan in it’s infant stages in Massachusetts. The plan is working very well there right now, and I beleive the current healthcare coverage rate is approximately in the upper ninetieth percentile. The way it works is that you can opt out of being covered, but you have to pay a penalty to the state for doing this. Furthermore, employers are required to provide health insurance, and if they don’t, the employer is required to pay a penalty to the state for this. These penalties are used to subsidize those who are uninsured, and the remainder are insured privately through their employer. What happens is that the subsidation does not come from the tax payer, rather it comes from those who choose not to partake in the system.

But then what about those who complain that they have to pay a penalty for not providing or maintaining care? The reality is that the people opting out of the plan will undoubtedly need some form of healthcare coverage at some point in the future. Therefore, their contribution, i.e. penalty fee, into the healthcare system will ultimately be utilized by them when they seek government assistance for outlandish healthcare costs they will at some point require. As to the employers, it merely becomes what is more cost effective for them, providce insurance and the costs involved, or pay the penalty fee. Whichever is less is what they will most likely utilize. So if they choose to pay the penalty, they are essentially subsidizing the plan for their employees who will now need to seek government assistance. So in reality, they are providing healthcare insurance but in a more circuitoius fashion.

All in all, while I am an advocate for Universal healthcare, I am also a realist in that the insurance lobby is so strong, it will never allow for the adoption of this program. The government should seek a reversal of current insurance practices and they should force the companies to not risk pool, and require that they go back to a community rating system. This would lower costs alltogether, and allow for more to be covered. People in the industry would then be able to receive healthcare at a reduced cost and not the $800 a month and up some are currently paying. Ultimately, none of this will happen and costs will unfortunately continue to soar with no end in sight.

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oh yeah

pretend you are in good health

that can work.

ask any practitioner.

…ambrose…

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In case anyone missed it… PBS ran an interesting Frontline show about how 5 other capitalist democracies managed to do it. I don’t really want to get taxed more either but the current situation is a mess.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

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Sounds great but it won’t work. Here’s why…

I’m part owner of a small company (50 employees) and we have group insurance for the employees and their dependents. We used to cover all the costs. It’s too expensive now so we have to deduct $$ from paychecks to cover dependent insurance as well as a small portion of the employee’s insurance. Our company makes a (gasp) profit and that is the source of money to pay the balance of the employee’s insurance.

Surfrider or any other “group” doesn’t make a profit so the cost of insurance will have to be borne by the “members”. How are you going to guarantee the cash flow to pay the monthly/quarterly/annual payment to the insurance company?

“Dude, I had to buy blanks this month so I don’t have the dough for my insurance payment. I’ll make it up next month, I swear!”

That means Surfrider will have to require annual dues on the order of $16,000 so they don’t end up financing members insurance costs. Don’t think that’s gonna happen.

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In Reply To

Quote:

That’s another subject entirely, but back on track, as a healthcare professional I think universal health care is a joke. It’ll be another drain on the productive by the unproductive, with poor quality service being provided to boot! Besides, we already have health services for the needy. It’s called the ER. God knows enough people use it as their personal free doctor’s office.

Shwuz: isn’t that just the thing universal coverage is supposed to solve: the high cost of treating indigent people through the ER? Correct us if we’re wrong, but isn’t it much cheaper to treat people with insulin on a regular basis rather than having them forgo medical care and end up in the ER to amputate a limb? You either pay now or you pay more later. You’re a health care professional, tell us.

LeeV: premiums for 50 people is not the same as premiums for 5000 people. The folks on Swaylocks, or Surfrider, or whatever surfer/shaper organization that develops will have that block of people to support their negotiations. I know of other trade organizations that do this very thing, offer reduced rate health care to their members. They don’t ask members to pay all the annual premiums up front, just their monthly dues - as Benny1 noted: $100-$200/mo.

All ya gots to do is herd dem cats…

CoWaBunGA