these truths should be self evident.
one off boards retain a unique
quality un attainable in mass production
an unmeasureable quallity
the primary comparisson
should price point to ultimate owner.
the only thing missing is a good front man.
Salesman as it were.
Pitching positive attributes
and overlooking flaws
and or denying them.
…ambrose…
Ambie…couldn’t agree more…however the market doesn’t sustain the theory or practice.
I deal with realities that pay my mortgage.
The bank holding my note doesn’t surf.
Considering how I surf… maybe I’m simply unworthy of a machine-shaped board.
I don’t notice the difference in fractions of millimeters in foil. I don’t care if the board I broke is slightly different than the board I’m building. And I don’t get any satisfaction out of laying down a ton of cash for a new board off the rack shaped by a machine… or a shaper I don’t even know, or who dosen’t care about how I like the board, for that matter.
For me… and I speak only for me… I need a connection between me and the shaper, and that’s through the board.
So for me… there is no “value” you can put a number on.
actually more than 20% – the value of the connection between wave rider and board builder is too close for anything less. when i order a custom board(as compared to an impluse buy off the rack) i want to talk to “the Man” and link up ‘what i want vs what i need’ and thus in a short period of time i have a piece of equipment that totally fits both my brain and body. (thanks Fletch and Brian)
I’m in the process of shaping my first board and I can honestly say I will never complain about the price of a handshaped surfboard by a competent shaper ever again. As far as I’m concerned machine shaped boards should be half the cost of a hand shape. I paid $700 for my last hand shaped fish with resin tint and swirl and now that I see what goes into the creation I think that was bargain. I would dare say that less than 5% of the surfing population would be able to tell the difference between a competently hand shaped copy of a machine shaped board. And when I say competent I’m refering to those beyond the professional shapers and including the backyard garage shapers who have put some serious time into it. I currently own 3 machine shaped/hand finished boards (CI and WRV) and 3 hand shaped boards. The machine shapes sit in the racks while the hand shapes are getting ridden. Not because of performance, but because I guess I feel more of a connection to them. On the flip side I can understand that for some people there is a comfort in knowing that a machine shaped your board and you’re getting an exact copy and know what to expect. But I still think that those boards should be priced less than a hand crafted and loved piece of sculpture. Look at it this way. Would you spend the same amount of money for an exact machine shaped reproduction of Michelangelo’s David as you would for the original? I’m not suggesting that hand shaped surfboard pricing be treated as dramatically as fine art, but there should be a respectful difference. Would you pay the same for handmade furniture as you would for machine made mass produced IKEA crap. Again, I think not. Unfortunately most people view surfing as a “sport” and a surfboard as piece of “sporting equipment” and never find the spiritual connection that the ancient Polynesians had with surfing. And that is why we will always be plagued by pop-outs.
Ambrose - you forgot a zero.
I currently own 3 machine shaped/hand finished boards (CI and WRV)
VERY slim chance you have a machine cut WRV. The owner of the company hates machines more than anybody I know.
I’m glad all of you believe in the handshaped surfboard. I think there’s something special going on there too.
Does the $100.00 per foot fit that math? I’m with the wise advise you shared with me… “For you… Only $100.00 per foot.”
Quote:I currently own 3 machine shaped/hand finished boards (CI and WRV)
VERY slim chance you have a machine cut WRV. The owner of the company hates machines more than anybody I know.
I’m glad all of you believe in the handshaped surfboard. I think there’s something special going on there too.
That’s very good to know! I have two WRV’s. One was a custom order performance fish from Tommy Moore, which I know was hand shaped and I love that board. I did my first floater on that thing. The other is a shortboard I store at my cousins house in San Diego for when I visit there so I don’t get to ride it much. I bought it on sale off the rack and guess I assumed it was machine shaped. My bad. Thanks for clarifying.
that was before the price increase in oil ,gas,resin,air,chuck taylor all stars and peanut brittle.
100$ a foot was the old price.
yachts long ago were 100$ a foot.
heck what are they now.
In 1968 the revolutionary year the price out of our underground
garage was 70$ a board all hand done and crooked rails and orange peel glosses were the norm.
shop boards were $150.00
…ambrose…
pay a kid $1.00 he’ll work for a day
pay um a million they’ll work for a life time,
or at least till the inflated money aint worth a damn.
Im not disagreing,but an analogous question is…
how much would you be willing to pay for a car that lasts 5 years instead of 12?
more durable surfboards made of more reliable materials, ie, popouts, has changed the game.
but no question, custom surfboards are under-appreciated…however people always seem willing to pay more for art.
how many starving artists are there in the world?
I`m more than happy to pay double the price for my custom boards.
I have 6 customs and Im sorry to admit but I also own one Surftech P.O.S. The customs are all much more durable than the Surftech, I bought it because I thought it was supposed to be stronger but Ive found just the opposite to be true.
Let’s make it even harder for people to afford a brand new surfboard. Then we can all make more money!
traditionally stigamta is free to the faithful and tenacious.
fake stigmata ,popularized in medievil Italy,was a
sure fire way to get chicks attention.
The problem was nuns as a rule were celibate
and the lusty types frowned at bloody hand prints on their
shirt backs.Yes dean you could make a lot of boards
for cheep and make it easy for the people to afford
a new board…
more money is an illusion in inflationary periods
more money is treading water price fixing is erosion of working capital
as the materials costs increase,restocking material inventory
exausts all profit taking…natural case is to raise price stay in business
or hold price do not stay in business.
yes onwards and down to the necessities,
or perhaps down nose to the grind stone.
…ambrose…
be nice roy.
Excuse the bluntness but in NZ at least the economy is not improving. At least in my opinion. When dollars become tighter some necessities (like boards) tend to become luxuries.
Pushing the price up of luxuries only makes it more of a luxury. No doubt materials for surfboard production will rise soon as the price of oil continues it’s journey into fucking ridiculous prices.
I find that as a result, that the cost of everything that requires the merest sniff of transporation, let alone products that are derived from oil suddenly take a sharp turn for the more expensive.
Take for example food. Takes transportation to get from the grower to the wholesaler to the supermarket. Closely followed by… everything else! But back to my point.
When times are not so great (like when China is consuming half the world’s oil) it can become hard to afford anything else but a cheap pop out. (Insert violin music here). I’ll put it to you another way. Ferrari makes some nice cars. An extreme example but anyway, make of that what you will.
By the way, if your customers keep coming after a twenty percent rise in prices, can you email me and tell me how you did it? Even better still, write a book. It will be a best seller.
Yours unfaithfully
Dean Bonkovich
I , totally agree with ambrose , however the people I shape for can’t afford $150 a foot so I have to stay in the market zone. I always find it hard to disagree with ambrose .
tonite i resold for a former customer
a surfboard I made in 1996.
the board originally sold for over 500 $
the second owner who bought the board over three years ago bought it for 380$
today I sold to the third owner for 290$
this board retained its value
because it was well made
and used respectfully.
each response I make in sways
are from my upcoming book.
being assembled in loose leaf f
by my outsourced agents
in the third world.
You are to be put on my mailing list,
It cost the first owner170$
to own the board for over
three years + ding repair.the
second owner relinquished
approximately 130$
to own the board
for three years
taking responsibility for the resale
price and sale
going to an appropriate owner’s
use parameter match
makes for a satisfied customer
an appropriate value
and by keeping the board
in good repair
is good stewardship.
definately not planned
obsolescence
but indeed planned longevity.
quality construction , materials
and extended customer service
makes good boards better.
If I cant sell the board before the owner 's patience is strained
I consider buying the board back
and putting it into my
extensive portfolio of boards I have made.
surfing the sport of hawaiian kings
that uses surfboards that are luxury items.
To believe otherwise is ludicrous.
the point is simple
the spiral of underpricing hand work,Skilled hand work
is the undoing of the craft.
surfboards are not paper cups
cheap stuff gets thrown away.
surf boards in ancient hawaii were family heirlooms.
…ambrose…
Beach/surf Hours for pop-out surfboards:
… are between the hours of 0200-0400.
H
more money is an illusion in inflationary periods
more money is treading water price fixing is erosion of working capital
as the materials costs increase,restocking material inventory
exausts all profit taking…natural case is to raise price stay in business
or hold price do not stay in business.
yes onwards and down to the necessities,
or perhaps down nose to the grind stone.
There was an “economics” thread late last year I think, before things in the U.S. really publically tanked…that covered a lot of ground. The U.S. economy is bug splat on the windshield (or windscreen to those of you below the equator), and there are a couple of potential waves left to hit. One is being talked about this week for the first time on a “common knowledge” acknowledgement level in mass media: bank failures. The other is so closely related to potential bank failures that it is scarier than the sub-prime lending mess: massive credit card defaults. And the credit card situation is the one that perhaps affects retail sales more than anything else. Just ask the surf industry companies who are publically traded on Wall Street how sales this year are doing (or the next best thing…take five minutes and check into Quik, PacSun, and others online…hint: through business/economic sites, not their own sites).
Surfboards? They’ve been retail afterthoughts since the 1980’s. The Crushing Blues did make them little cash cows this decade, when the only thing needed to qualify for a credit card was half a pulse and something verifying 18 years of age. How many guys reading this recognize the phrase “impulse purchase” in relation to new surfboards? That’s a huge sea change in surfing culture…yes, in many cases it reflects an aging population and advancing financial security among them, but a lot of it is simple free spending habits.
I have to think all that plus the mass media ego-feed has in some way devalued the wave riding vehicle. “Want” and “Need” are mixed and thinned into one nebulous concept. Everything you buy is someone else’s crap and eventually your trash. With rampant oil speculation and the resulting energy chaos just coming to a boil once again, I suspect Want and Need are going to come under some scrutiny - slowly and painfully, no doubt. And that may not in the end be a bad thing at all.
With surfboards there is Art, and Craft, and Manufacturing. How the successful businesspeople will deal with the changing economic realities will determine (as always) who thrives and who survives and who gets left behind. There is more than one “right answer” and finding a balance may be key…having something for all markets or effectively communicating with people coming from each of them. I suggest that the concept of value is a key element, and it is up to the seller/customer contact point to effectively state the case for the product and corresponding price. Value is a factor of many things beyond time and materials and cost of doing business. Examples that come easily to mind as I write this are the desgin concepts and craftsmanship of the Cooperfish Surfboards, Campbell Brothers, Moonlight Glassing board porn (it’s a good thing!), accumulated everything of Frye and Hynson and Brewer, and you can fill in the list from there with your own experiences and influences.
Nels
Master - What would you suggest then? $150.00/foot +/-?