Howzit oneula, I have a story for you. One of my room mates is from Molokai (born and bred) he got his Hawaiian homestead land a couple of years back. But instead of letting them just lease the land and build their own houses they had to use a contractor and his payments would be $900 a month for the house. A couple of months ago he got a notice that they were taking his land back because he didn’t live there for now. He had previously worked a deal with them that would let his brother be a partner in the land but they went back on their word and then pulled this on him.There was no way he could make the payments if he moved back to Molokai, especially with the high unemployment there and this guy is a good construction man plus an chef also. Really blows me away, Hawaiians taking away from Hawaiians. Such a shame.Aloha,Kokua
You all are making good points but I challange you guys to find one Kona resident who thinks costco, home despot or any of the new industrial park buildings are a bad thing. on the Big Island the locals there love it. It smells of fresh baked bread, cheap pizza and opportunity. There was no mom and p[op stores even present there to hurt. Bravo for the big guys to take a huge chance there.
Also the current city and countydevelopment of Hawaii has little to do with outsiders. The sins of our father’s are being lived by us. The city and county planers from decades agoi( 1 generation) made the long term plans for what we see now. I would only wish the zoning on much of the ag land on snake road to wailua owuld be rezoned. I kick my self for not buying in mokuelia the 2 acre lots. The small problem of not having the money was my only obsticle. The 5 acre gentleman farms on the right side going down the hill have been around for 10+ years and there are less than 5 homes present?? So I don’t see your prediction happening anytime soon on snake road. What a view too!!
And Shark C I am a great guy. Silly can vouch for me on that issue.
Mark my words, the airline void will be filled quickly. I just hope Go can make the others keep the prices down to allow all the tourists with money to visit all over the islnads and leave their coin behind. It’s a winderful thing for small and large businesses in Hawaii.
The question will be
will you stay because you love this place and this is your home or will you run away like everyone else when it does…
This may be the ultimate question, especially for surfers anywhere.
I don’t like the idea of “running away” because it denotes fear or something unsavory, but…
Where I live, my home area, if you will…there’s almost nothing left of what kept me hanging around. Out of every place I’ve ever worked in my entire life only one place still exists. The fields are gone, driving to nearby Ventura takes “forever” (can now find stop and go traffic any time) 7 days a week unless you unexpectedly catch it open or before sunrise, and when you get there the surf is being shared by people from 3 full counties. It’s partly a problem of context in that I knew it well when things were a lot different; although that’s my reality it’s still reality for me.
There isn’t much reason to leave the house any more except to spend money, fatten the corporate coffers of one of those pricks like the guy who used to run Home Depot (he took his magnificent experience and now runs Chrysler) or the thieving bastards who perpetrated the predatory home lending fiasco; I’m mostly staying around for what amounts to ghosts. That can’t be healthy. I’m not in a hurry to join them, either…although it’s always good to see the familar.
"I got to run
to keep from hidin’"
What do you do when “home” isn’t home any more?
Using Kona residents to prove a point is a big mistake. Kona is a messed up place. Messed up by the people that moved here from far away places in the last 20-30 years. There is very little of what used to be there left today. There were many Mom and Pop stores there before, and the residents were all hard working “country” people.
Having gone to Kamehameha Schools, I have close friends on all islands who are born and raised there. I’ve got many friends who are born and raised in Kona, and many others who moved there from Oahu.
My friends that live there say it is very hard to go to Kailua Town and not get so angry that you want to kick some ass because the people are so messed up. All me… me…me and a lot of FU. I certainly hope you are not one of the Kona newbies.
My good friend and classmate’s father was the doctor at Waialua Sugar. They owned a lot of the land in Mokuleia. The last time I went there I was shocked at how messed up the development has made that area. It used to be so mellow and wide open.
I agree that the State planning people are responsible for the mess we are living in now. I also think we are responsible to a degree. It’s all of us who are so greedy, and trying so hard to get rich that has created the mess we live in.
The problem with Hawaii is that we continue to use tourism as the major income source. We want people to come and see what a beautiful place Hawaii is. Well that place is long gone, and tourism is a fickle industry. All we are doing is filling outsider’s minds with thoughts of land grabs, and how can I live there, get rich and retire young.
Your perspective and remarks say those things. It’s the mentality of the young people today. The “trying to keep up with the jones” has turned into “trying to out do the jones”. The world needs to think about “us” and not “me”.
OTAY
Believe me houses from schofield to wailua will happen in our lifetime it’s the last great frontier and there’s no way Ag can stand in the way of development cause land here is just too valuable and there’s just too much money out there in the hands of folks who want to make hawaii their retirement or vacation home… They’ll just expand the train line out to Haleiwa in 2020 to help with the congestion. And like you said I’m almost positive this has already been discussed in some smoke filled room of money brokers and politico’s just like they did in planning out the great “second city”.
bottom line is this…
there are 1900+ folks out there right now who don’t know how they will make their coming mortgage payments, rent, car payments, boat payments, credit payments, kid private school payments, college tuition payments. If you take into consideration the current savings rate of americans you’ll know this will be the big problem. Most folks do not plan ahead for such disasters and all it takes is a major one especially one not covered by other insurance that makes destitute and homeless…
Every financial call center on Monday was swamped with folks trying to get payment waivers or workouts on their obligations. If you know what the average mortgage payment and private school tuition is here in Hawaii you know how bad these folks must be feeling. I’m sure because we are Hawaii that all the Financial Institutions will pull togethor like we did after Iniki to help everyone else but things are different now cause some had exposure to the sub-prime mess and some didn’t. Aloha Airlines had their own employee FCU and it’ll be interesting to see what happens now… The flight and miles issues are fluff compared the base economics going on in the back ground. Did you know that alot of the higher paid interisland pilot employees don’t even live here but commute to and from the mainland as needed with just a stay over condo here…
How this all sweeps through the community will be interesting to watch but I know this community will do what it can it although maybe not in the future as it’s composure of residents becomes more transient.
Kokua
The french bank had exposure cause they underwrote the credit card. They will carry the load for the use of those miles at other vendors as United shut it down as soon as Aloha announced. Someone had to step in and fund those miles for you so you could use them. It was an appropriate thing to do as the legal exposure was probably much greater if they didn’t. Also most participants never cash in which is why the entities promote those loyalty cards so the pay offs isn’t as bad unless folks get into a panic like everyone did when the company goes bankrupt. I know they will do the right thing for the community they service.
Ben
They went under because the pricing was artificially low and did not compensate Aloha for the rising cost of fuel. There’s a business saying that “you get what you pay for” in this case the local population got what they created by going cheap instead of supporting local. OTAY is right Aloha’s demise is our own fault now one else…Now prices will have to be adjusted to reflect the real cost of business versus just having a swap meet sales event in the air. I foresee the cost of shipping surfboards soon to blow everyone’s mind if all the airlines follow suit to what’s happening globally. Hell if the majors will only allow you to take one bag on for free now I don’t see why they won’t bar if not gouge for golf bags, surfboards and anything else oversized… The price of fuel will dictate the action not whether they will piss off a certain class of flyers… If you’re a 100,000 flyer or better you’ll get what you want otherwise forget it… Traveling surfers and golfers have been spoiled, that will change soon… I think there’s a market for board storage services around the world some time in the future.
I always try to shop local if it’s possible and I focus more on service especially after sales service than on price. I also try and support companies that support my company especially companies that are long term clients who don’t jump when the rates change or when they don’t get the low prices they want. Being fair is a two edged sword. Most experienced business owners should understand this.
My pop’s always believed that you always buy the best, sticking with things that last and stay loyal to those that provided the best service no matter the cost, because in the end if you can’t afford it, you shouldn’t have bought it in the first place…
And that’s the core what’s been going wrong everywhere for the past couple generations…
A simple rule everyone seems to have forgotton.
Bottomline… its the media
Amen.
Although as I watch the circus from my particular vantage point I might say…
there’s no way Ag can stand in the way of development cause land here is just too valuable and there’s just too much money out there in the hands of folks who want to make hawaii their retirement or vacation home
Since I’m living in nearly the same circumstance in California (instead of vacation or retirement homes it’s just nice/safe housing the overpopulated masses desire) I can safely say it isn’t the retirement or vacation home or basic people looking to live in nice circumstances that are raping the living crap out of life these days…it truly is the Backroom and BoardRoom Boys who are doing the dirt. The people from other places who most love the Hawaii you guys grew up with are the ones who come because of that…and they are for the most part going to want the same things you do. The people who only love your money are the ones who sneak in to do you “favors” and end up with all the goodies…and they really don’t care at all what happens to the people or place. Locusts, eh?
The airlines should gouge for golf bags…those things are heavy, especially compared to surfboards. The people who make the rules probably don’t carry golf bags much…that’s why they have the rest of us. 
Not as fragile though. Airlines might invest in Surftech and stop carrying boards altogether…Surftech everywhere on earth.
Amen.
Although as I watch the circus from my particular vantage point I might say…
Quote:there’s no way Ag can stand in the way of development cause land here is just too valuable and there’s just too much money out there in the hands of folks who want to make hawaii their retirement or vacation home
The one X factor is traffic. Traffic mitigation is one of the few things stopping development of Ag land.
Another is putting re-zoning to public vote. I think Ventura has that in place.
The one X factor is traffic. Traffic mitigation is one of the few things stopping development of Ag land.
Another is putting re-zoning to public vote. I think Ventura has that in place.
Anything helps, but it won’t stop evil. Next time you absolutely have to drive between Camarillo and Ventura on the 101, preferably in that direction but not absolutely necessary, look for a few key thngs. On the north side of the freeway just west of Las Posas Road in Camarillo there is a bunch of level ag land below the hills covered with homes of the rich…Camarillo has okayed 1300-1700 new housing units in that area alone, in this hideous housing market and economic climate. The big issue was building a new on/off ramp and I think overpass in the middle between Las Posas and Central. All the city had to do was ensure they could get the new people on the freeway without choking up other surface streets. What they do when they get on the freeway…not their problem.
Oxnard is building out. You can’t see most of it from the freeway but they have pumped in higher density units behind the freeway strip of business and retail parks. Where that is most visible is just north of the freeway before the Santa Clara River, where they are still building out incredibly dense housing. Hence the typical freeway clog everyday in Oxnard even though they nearly doubled the number of freeway lanes there a couple of years ago.
The SOAR inititative in Ventura County has slowed development, but cannot stop it. The state and the feds have housing requirements that must be met for an ever-expanding population or tax money will be withheld. Kind of like the Santa Barbara growth control things of decades past…while that might have helped some areas, anybody who went to UCSB through the early 1990’s would be shocked if they were looking to drive to IV for a nostalgic romp through yesteryear. Once all the new build land is gone it will be redevelopment of high density multipurpose dwellings on an infill basis. If you are lucky enough to live in a house, you may find the next door home scraped and being replaced by a 2-3 story 8 unit project. Good for the environment! Go Green!
The thing protecting Hawaii at the moment is probably cost of shipping construction materials in…
Howzit oneula, Don’t forget the fact that GO illegally used info from Hawaiian and Aloha’s earlier bankruptsy filings for their benefit. That’s what why both airlines are suing GO and Hawaiian got their’s in the form of 86 mil. Since I don’t us GO and never will I was wondering if they can even put surfboards on their small planes. If not then surfers with boards will hav eto use Hawaiian so at least they will get that part of the market. It is a shame that Hawaiian is going to buy planes from Aerobus instead of a USA manufacturer. Aloha,Kokua
Naybe what you say is true but I know for fact the mountain side property on snake road north of schofield is all for sale and it is ag with no hope anytime soon to be commericial or residential. I have personally looked into it and they for some reason are pricing it as non ag at total rip off rates. Between Kam highway and snake road I am not aware of any plans for commericial/residential development. But if they aitn’t growing pineapples anymore it seems suseptible to me for development. The next ag land to go or possibly already gone in across the street of costco and tony honda/ Land exemptions have already been approved for a no longer planned tech park project. Development of that sort means lot of great jobs in the non service insudtry.
Yoiu ask what will happen regarding all those fired employees. They will all collect unemployment for months and the very industrious will have equivelant paying jobs by the end of the month if they so choose. Oahu isn’t the puna district with 25% unemployment. I am very optimistic the impact on the hawaii economy will be minimal and the motivated survivors will succeed and the unmotivated, lazy and incapable will milk the system for all it’s worth, blame all thier woes on this set back and still be taken care of by our State government.
I will comment again in one year and it will be “I told you so” for one of us.
Shark C., I agree, Kona traffic is ball busting. But the 200+ employees making the road bigger are doing a great job at a great pay rate too. Thier families are really benefitting from the growth… Is it like the old days? No it sure isn’t, but the most selfish thing stated is the attitude that no change should happen because it’s all bad and makes things somehow no longer Hawaiian.
Just where do you suggest you stop the time machine to make things good and pure in your eyes again? The problem is whereever you choose to stop there will be many(mostly to older generation) who think even that change that has happened is not positive and cloulds thier dreams of growing up, and migrates from the traditions they have been raised on. It’s a testimony to that we all are getting older. I guess I am just too optimistic about the future of Hawaii and specifically the future airline services here. Only time will tell.
Four observations as I used to work at Aloha and my wife currently works for Hawaiian
-
Aloha employed something like 3500 people and was a tiny airline. Hawaiian used to have the same amount of employees and is something like the 16th biggest airline in the US. Sounds like Aloha was a bit top heavy.
-
Go! is or was flying so few seats inter-island that Aloha and Hawaiian should have stuck to their guns and charged a price that would allow them to break even. So what if Go! filled up on money loosing tickets, at least Aloha and Hawaiian could have covered their operating costs. Hawaii consumers are so loyal they would have flown the local carriers, right?
-
Aloha’s inter-island fleet was outdated a couple decades ago. The 737-200 jets they fly are extremely fuel inefficient. Aloha looked into new jets before, while, and after I worked there. But obviously never pulled the trigger. Ironically, they were looking into buying regional jets very similar to the ones Go! now flies.
-
As much as people moan and wail about brand loyalty in Hawaii. Money talks! People buy the cheapest ticket… period. Now when Aloha goes out of business there is a ton of yelling and posturing. Bottom line? Hawaiians, locals, haoles, immigrants, dogs, birds, donkeys, rich, poor, whatever. They all fly on the cheapest thing possible.
Am I bummed about the airline folding? Yes. I have a ton of friends/former coworkers that are literally screwed by this. Did I see this coming when I worked there? Yes, that’s why I moved on 4 years ago. Shit, as a flight attendant, I gave up 20% of my gross pay to help save the friggin airline! Everyone there did. All it did was put off the inevitable. Aloha’s financial losses for the past FOUR years were all in the tens of millions. It is unfortunate for all the employees of Aloha that it’s management couldn’t figure out how to get their heads out of their asses. If it wasn’t Go! it would have been something else.
Wow, great post with insider info.
When ATA airline folds will GO get blamed for that too?
since when is acting with thought and considering your neighbor before you make decisions
a time specific thing?
the mindsets that SharkCountry and Oneula are describing are right regardless of the year.
money, getting money, and keeping money isn’t the end all be all. being selfish gets you
nowhere in the long run. it just ends up making things worse for everyone.
More signs of the times.
Sad indeed.
H
"since when is acting with thought and considering your neighbor before you make decisions
a time specific thing?"
“My neighbor” consideration goes beyond a 15 mile radius of my house. The fact that aloha airlines was mismangaed and essentially owned for the last 4 years by out of state financers speaks for itself. If you would like to run your business at a losing profit for some money hating sentiment you suggest, you will certainly get nohwere too. The poor management decisions of aloha are the most selfish behaviors we could discuss here. They certainly did make it worse for thier employees.
i didn’t mention Aloha airlines at all. i don’t know anything about how AA was
managed. i believe that you mentioned Home Depot and Lowes first.
and i agree that considering those beyond my 15 mile radius is essential.
i disagree that big businesses benefit the communities that they set up shop
in. big business makes it’s money off of the everyday workers and get rich
by eliminating options. in the end only the ones running the business win.
i don’t smell opportunity. paying people the least amount that you can,
putting none or next to none of your profits directly back into the local community
while a few get millions is not helping the community at all.
time will tell. once Hawaii is completely paved over, and the water is brown, all
those same businesses will move on to other, more appealing places. and then what?
a truly beautiful, natural, paradise gone forever… “but hey, we got ours.”
it’s happening everywhere. we need to consider the whole planet when we make
decisions.
usually, doing the right thing costs more.
to dream…
EAGLES LYRICS
“The Last Resort”
She came from Providence,
the one in Rhode Island
Where the old world shadows hang
heavy in the air
She packed her hopes and dreams
like a refugee
Just as her father came across the sea
She heard about a place people were smilin’
They spoke about the red man’s way,
and how they loved the land
And they came from everywhere
to the Great Divide
Seeking a place to stand
or a place to hide
Down in the crowded bars,
out for a good time,
Can’t wait to tell you all,
what it’s like up there
And they called it paradise
I don’t know why
Somebody laid the mountains low
while the town got high
Then the chilly winds blew down
Across the desert
through the canyons of the coast, to
the Malibu
Where the pretty people play,
hungry for power
to light their neon way
and give them things to do
Some rich men came and raped the land,
Nobody caught 'em
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes, and Jesus,
people bought 'em
And they called it paradise
The place to be
They watched the hazy sun, sinking in the sea
You can leave it all behind
and sail to Lahaina
just like the missionaries did, so many years ago
They even brought a neon sign: “Jesus is coming”
Brought the white man’s burden down
Brought the white man’s reign
Who will provide the grand design?
What is yours and what is mine?
'Cause there is no more new frontier
We have got to make it here
We satisfy our endless needs and
justify our bloody deeds,
in the name of destiny and the name
of God
And you can see them there,
On Sunday morning
They stand up and sing about
what it’s like up there
They call it paradise
I don’t know why
You call someplace paradise,
kiss it goodbye
Howzit jc9, Aloha has only laid off 1900 employees that were in the passenger division for Aloha. Their cargo ops are still up and running but now the pilots union is threatening to stop ops because of senority reasons. Alos it seems that Hawaiian and Go are hiring new people to help as they ramp up to fill the gap. Yesterdays Advertiser had a story about the laid off emploees being very much employable due to their skill levels. There's hope for them to recover and find employment.Aloha,Kokua
Good point Kokua, thank goodness all 3500 aren’t out of work. I was just trying to say that Aloha, as a far smaller operation than Hawaiian, had just as many employees. Since Hawaiian had outsourced it’s reservations etc. to the Phillipines, Aloha probably had more employees. Crazy…
I’ve been in contact with my buddies from Aloha trying to give them the heads up on new openings. Hope they are able to bounce back OK. Rumor is Hawaiian could be hiring as many as 200 flight attendants. If I remember correctly Aloha had around 500 flight attendants, so nearly half may be lucky enough to get a job there… let’s hope so.
With ATA closing also, Hawaiian will probably add more mainland flights as well. That would mean more pilots and flight attendants needed, go Hawaiian!!
Kokua, this is not a reply to you. It is a reply to OTAY.
My father was half hawaiian. He was also very proud to be an american. He worked at Pearl Harbor before Dec.7th 1941, and worked through the mess to get things back together. Then he was drafted into the ARMY and fought in Korea. When the cold war began they put his group back together and sent them all to Germany to prepare for the worse.
When I was in High School, I became an angry Hawaiian. Studying history made me hate everything about the US. How it was created and what it stood for. We had many long arguments about the modernization of Hawaii.
I didn’t grow up when there was no air travel like he did, or when cars were only for for the rich people. I didn’t have to ride a bicycle from Honolulu to Nanakuli on dirt roads or catch the train like he did. My perspective was warped by the changes already made.
But, we always lived in the rural parts of the world, isolated from the urbanized side, and I like that world so much better than what I see today.
It wasn’t long ago that if you were going to an outer island, you would expect that things would not be as convenient, that the services would be slower. It was country and that’s what made those places so special. Once the outsiders moved in they started complaining about the lack and quality of service instead of embracing the beauty of the remoteness. If you wanted modern society, you could stay on Oahu. But some people want their way and they don’t care about anyone else.
I feel sorry for people that never had a chance to see Hawaii 40 years ago, or even before that. My older friends tell me what Honolulu was like when they were kids. This was before the developers filled in all the taro patches and rice paddies, and you would never belive it seeing what it is today.
So as far as when I would have stopped the growth… it would have been in the 60’s before we started building the high rise buildings.
Hawaiians are not foolish people. We are very progressive and look for better ways of doing things, but we always try to look far ahead and make the right decisions. The changes should always be for the better. If it will have a negative impact on my grandchildren’s grandchildren, than it should not be done.
The ancients used Kapu (laws) to keep people from doing the wrong things. Break a Kapu and you die. The Kapu system ensured over 1000 years of a sustained life style. Yes there were slaves and kings, but most common people lived happily. The Chiefs and their warriors killed each other, but the working class just kept on surviving.
Americans make laws just to break laws. All that matters is that the highly connected people make money. They destroy the middle class as they work on getting richer. What everyone else in the world sees is that in America it’s OK to screw people over to take care of yourself. That’s why so many other countries hate Americans.