Alternative coatings/sealers/glue for EPS

Anyone know anything about this stuff??

http://www.industrialpolymers.com/styrospray.html

http://www.demandproducts.com/urecoat.html

http://www.demandproducts.com/adhesive.html

or

Airex R63

is a closed cell thermoplastic foam with an extremely high damage tolerance. It is cold formable to simple 3-dimensional contours. It is a suitable core material for dynamically loaded and shock absorbing sandwich structures. Used as sandwich core for reinforcing decks on EPS sail boards where ability to wrap around rails is paramount.

I was looking for some molding compound to build a box mold to capture a pretty radical bottom contour instead of Bert’s contour map cause the concave is like 1/2"-1" deep, when I came across these other solution instead of resin… i,e, soft sealants that you can use glass with might be interesting to use this stuff between the sandwich and the foam or seal the foam with this stuff then apply your preformed sandwiches over the top…

looking at the Airex to go under the sandwich as an insulator between the sealed foam and the skin. How’s this stuff work?

Be neat to put a board togethor with some coatings/sealants other than resin stuff just to see how it works specially if it’s flexible. Got the sandwiches for strength anyway right…

But I’m sure Greg will set us straight if it’s all a waste of money…

JamesChen of KineticSailboards is one of the leaders in airex tech. He’s been vacuuming airex onto styrofoam for over 8 years, still uses mulitple layers of carbon for high stress areas, as airex breaks down, but is about double the usable life as divinicell. He’s tried every sandwich material known to man, starting around '88 and progressing thru the years and currently active in the windsurf board building industry.

Are you making a female mold? Just stiffer and heavier is best, with no chance for temperature or flex distortion. Reinforced with aluminum or allow struts.

Deep concaves need a flexible initial mold, then reinforcement after removal of the plug.

would like to try some A63…

as far as adhesives, 3M 5200 polyurethane is proly the most widely used product for marine adhesive/sealant apps…has really good properties…

funny but i’ve been thinking along the same lines…

Oneula:

All good links.

Interesting alternative to the standard EPS bogging routines. The adhesive looks like something to explore for EPS/stringer glueups.

Here is a link to some Airex information:

http://www.baltek.com/products/airex/airexR63.htm

Seems that there is lots of support for this in the highend yacht industry, pricey yes, but doubtful that the effort is wasted. Thanks!

Tom S.

Yeah

but read this…

http://www.spsystems.com/solutions/general_pdfs/SPGuide_to_Composites.pdf

Can’t tell the diff now between Corecell and Airex

also there’s a bunch of different types of Airex

And on top of that Aluminum and Other types of honeycomb cores… mind boggling

I thinking there’s a combo out there of Airex, treated and oriented Balsa, and/or Divi that makes up BB’s magic springer sauce not including RDM…

Just gotta peal them layers off…

Okay now what the heck?

while research alternative building material i,e, the ecoboard project I ran into these sound bites…

First of all an actual HempBoard Manufacturer… So Yoshio ain’t the first…

Quote:

http://www.oceangreen.org/OceanGreenFrame.htm

The aim of OceanGreen is to produce custom surfboards that are 100% bio-derived, that is, made entirely from natural materials.

Most surfers feel compromised by having to use equipment that is ecologically damaging in what should be a natural environment. OG give surfers the choice of showing respect for their environment as they interact with it.

OG aims to replace each of the surfboard’s 3 base materials with an environmentally friendly alternative which has equal or better qualities for the job.

Using Hemp cloth instead of fibreglass, we have started the process. Combined with polystyrene foam and epoxy resin, this produces boards which are lighter, stronger and greener.

OG are continually sourcing new products to replace the foam and resin whilst developing new methods to use older, sounder natural products.

Whatever your requirements, OG will shape you a board that rides beautifully, looks good and is better for the planet.

OG is a Newquay based company and our shaper has over 30 years experience in boardmaking. He and his team keep at the cutting edge through the direct experience of living within the surf and culture of Cornwall.

The a while back I questioned the health hazards of Greg’s Cerritos shaping demo and he said it was no probs…

Now I see this… What is this another VIOX scenerio for board makers?

I mean in Litmus Lynch admits the industry is just plain toxic to the environment… and yet we press on… hmmm

I need clarity here… Who’s telling “focused” truth and who’s not??

Quote:

-Report from Green Restaurant Association Creating an Environmentally Sustainable Restaurant Industry

Polystyrene Foam Report

What is it?

Polystyrene is a petroleum-based plastic made from the styrene monomer. Most people know it under the name Styrofoam, which is actually the trade name of a polystyrene foam product used for housing insulation. Polystyrene is a light-weight material, about 95% air, with very good insulation properties and is used in all types of products from cups that keep your beverages hot or cold to packaging material that keep your computers safe during shipping.

Why not use it?

  • The biggest environmental health concern associated with polystyrene is the danger associated with Styrene, the basic building block of polystyrene. Styrene is used extensively in the manufacture of plastics, rubber, and resins. About 90,000 workers, including those who make boats, tubs and showers, are potentially exposed to styrene. Acute health effects are generally irritation of the skin, eyes, and upper respiratory tract, and gastrointestinal effects. Chronic exposure affects the central nervous system showing symptoms such as depression, headache, fatigue, and weakness, and can cause minor effects on kidney function and blood. Styrene is classified as a possible human carcinogen by the EPA and by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC). A voluntary compliance program has been adopted by industries using styrene. The US Department of Labor, Occupational Safety & Health Administration unsuccessfully (a federal court overturned the ruling in 1992) tried to limit the amount of worker exposure to styrene to 50 parts per million (ppm). According to the Styrene Information and Research Center (SIRC), they still encourage their member companies to comply with the 50 ppm exposure limit. This program would reduce styrene exposures to a 50 ppm TWA with a 100 ppm (15 minute) ceiling.
    -OSHA (US Dept of Labor, Occupational Safety & Health Administration)
  • A 1986 EPA report on solid waste named the polystyrene manufacturing process as the 5th largest creator of hazardous waste.· The National Bureau of Standards Center for Fire Research identified 57 chemical byproducts released during the combustion of polystyrene foam. The process of making polystyrene pollutes the air and creates large amounts of liquid and solid waste.
  • Toxic chemicals leach out of these products into the food that they contain (especially when heated in a microwave). These chemicals threaten human health and reproductive systems.
  • These products are made with petroleum, a non-sustainable and heavily polluting resource.
  • The use of hydrocarbons in polystyrene foam manufacture releases the hydrocarbons into the air at ground level; there, combined with nitrogen oxides in the presence of sunlight, they form tropospheric ozone – a serious air pollutant at ground level. According to the EPA (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency) more than 100 million Americans currently live in areas that fail to meet air quality standards for ozone. California, the Texas Gulf Coast, the Chicago-Milwaukee area, and the Northeastern U.S. all have “serious ozone air quality problems,” according to EPA. Ozone is definitely a dangerous pollutant. The EPA says: “Healthy individuals who are exercising while ozone levels are at or only slightly above the standard can experience reduced functioning of the lungs, leading to chest pain, coughing, wheezing, and pulmonary congestion. In animal studies, long-term exposure to high levels of ozone has produced permanent structural damage to animal lungs while both short and long term exposure has been found to decrease the animal’s capability to fight infection.” In other words, prolonged exposure to atmospheric ozone above legal limits might be expected to damage the immune system.
  • By volume, the amount of space used up in landfills by all plastics is between 25 and 30 percent. -“Polystyrene Fact Sheet,” Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education, Los Angeles, California.
  • Polystyrene foam is often dumped into the environment as litter. This material is notorious for breaking up into pieces that choke animals and clog their digestive systems.
  • Many cities and counties have outlawed polystyrene foam (i.e. Taiwan, Portland, OR, and Orange County, CA).

Can polystyrene be recycled?
  • While the technology for recycling polystyrene is available, the market for recycling is very small and shrinking. Many Americans are hearing from their curbside recycling agencies that they will not accept PS goods. The good news is that the current Biopolymer revolution (biodegradable polymers) is charting a path for producing environmentally friendly packaging material to replace those peanuts. Corn based and other seeds known collectively as soapstock waste lead the way. Some are already available as replacements. Perhaps the problematic recycling situation will be solved by replacing the product.
  • Polystyrene recycling is not “closed loop” - collected polystyrene cups are not remanufactured into cups, but into other products, such as packing filler and cafeteria trays. This means that more resources will have to be used, and more pollution created, to produce more polystyrene cups.
    -“Plastics Industry Grasps for Straws,” Everyone’s Backyard, January/February 1990, Citizen’s Clearinghouse for Hazardous Waste, p. 6.

Does polystyrene deplete the ozone layer?
  • Initially a portion of polystyrene production was aided by the use of chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), the chemicals that break down ozone in the troposphere. When this issue came to light, polystyrene manufacturers negotiated a gradual phase-out of CFCs in the production process and no CFCs have been used since the late 1980’s.
  • Though polystyrene manufacturers claim that their products are “ozone-friendly” or free of CFCs, this is only partially true. Some polystyrene is now manufactured with HCFC-22, which, though less destructive than its chemical cousins, CFC-11 and CFC-12, is still a greenhouse gas and harmful to the ozone layer. In fact, according to a 1992 study by the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research, HCFCs are three to five times more destructive to the ozone layer than previously believed.
    -“Study Finds CFC Alternatives More Damaging Than Believed,” The Washington Post, December 10, 1989.

Why Use Alternatives?
  • Post-consumer recycled paper, bamboo, corn plastics, etc. are easily renewable resources.
  • All of these products biodegrade when composted.
  • Paper products can be recycled at most people’s doorstep where community recycling is in place.
  • In 1995, 40% of all US paper was recycled, including 32.6 million tons of paper & paperboard. (EPA)
  • Every ton of 100% Post-consumer waste recycled paper products you buy saves:
    • 12 trees
    • 1,087 pounds of solid waste
    • 1,560 kilowatts of energy (2 months of electric power required by the average US home)
    • 1,196 gallons of water
    • 1,976 lbs. of greenhouse gases (1,600 miles traveled in the average US car)
    • 3 cubic yards of landfill space
    • 9 pounds of HAPs, VOCs, and AOXs combined
    • 390 gallons of oil

Like I once said knowledge can be painfull…

Quote:

Yeah

but read this…

http://www.spsystems.com/solutions/general_pdfs/SPGuide_to_Composites.pdf

Oneula, Thanks for posting that link. SP had some excellent composites info availiable on their website a few years ago, better than most composites companies provided to the public on the web, and it seemed to vanish when they purchased Corecell and changed their website just over a year ago. Good to see they are back at it again, since I’ve not checked their website in awhile. Glenn

Yeah Glenn

It’s amazing stuff all condensed into a 72 page document…

Plan on memorizing it myself… Bet Bert and Greg did already

Those two guys are always a couple of steps ahead of everyone…

A really good blueprint to start with…

Greg has said that he has had really good luck working with hemp fabrics (they also look pretty good on the board!)

Oneula,

After you posted that I went to the SP site and they’ve done quite a bit of educational info updating. Other good stuff where you found that page: http://www.spsystems.com/solutions/general.htm

i just spent an hour going over that composites guide …

that is the best overall broad guide to composites ive ever read …

i just loved the technical properties of polyester and polyurethane foam and there recomendations for how to use it , plus how it rates against all the other composite materials …

dont you love it …

i think i will run a hard copy of that as an introduction to future employees …

that has great value …

well done …

regards

BERT

Onela,

Did a bit of research on Core-cell and Airex a while back - read the SPsytems stuff and trawled boatbuilding forums - consensus seemed to be not much between them - Core-cell seemed to be most popular - there were several posts that said Airex was hard to sand - a problem if you are blending deck and bottom skins into solid rails. However when you check mechanical props - Airex has greater elongation and makers claim lower fatigue. Me and Josh (Speedneedle) have built some boards with core-cell skins and balsa rails. Picked Core-cell only becuse Airex wasn’t available at the time I was sourcing materials. Will be testing this week. Will post results.