In your experience, which preforms better? I recently got my first epoxy board and after a single surf the tail (no grip) looked like it had taken a pounding. I was surprised since I was under the impression that Expoxy/EPS was way tougher. Any thoughts?
I’m no expert with either material, but I’m willing to bet that blank density and glassing schedules play a bigger role in pressure dings.
In most cases, eps is usually less dense than polyurethane, so if the glassing schedule on the epoxy isn’t upped to a heavier cloth (like 6oz/4oz deck for example) then you have the fact that you’re standing on softer foam. The reason epoxy is “stronger” than polyester boards is mainly because the board weighs less, so you can have a heavier glassed epoxy board come out the same weight as a light glassed poly board.
Yeah, I assumed that the cloth weight would have gone up to compensate for the softer/less dense foam. I will have to followup on what weight cloth actually got used in glassing. In the meantime, I’ve ordered a traction pad to minimize damage.
I have had a lot of problems with epoxy/eps presure dings. Built a 6’10" SUP for in the river. I wanted it to be very durable. With 2lb density eps I Did 2layers of 7.5oz top and bottom. Some of the guys were knee riding on the board and the created presure dings. I was pretty shocked. Other eps/epoxy boards I use in the rivers have less cloth and when I have smashe rocks and what not they seem to scratch more or just ding instead of smashing if it were poly. I was kind of wondering if I did a bad laminating job, but it seemed to be pretty solid
just from my experience with eps/ epoxy .
the tail area gets pressure dents bad and the stringer pops up . under the front foot nothing unusual compared to poly . three boards like this , 4+4 deck and 4+4 bottom .
reading the Stretch website and he went into construction of his boards , s cloth and d cloth is what he uses and does the decks on the bias .
next board that i ordered eps/ epoxy had the glassing changed to 6+6 warp deck on the bias and 4+4 bottom. BIG change , no big wells at all in the tail and barely any depressions under the front foot.
i feel that eps/ epoxy boards feel better , more pop in turns and get going faster in the first couple paddles .
who made your new board ?
Epoxy is more flexible,and lighter than poly. I mean the material.
So #1 the board will be more ding proof on bumps and bruises. But with that said it will not be tougher on the real daily wear. Like some guy riding into your nose...or you big brick feet jumping all over it.
Also it depends on how the board is built. If you're using standard glass, with standard glassing schedules, then it's going to be a standard durability board. That should come as a suprise? Galssing schedule are just that..glassing schedules....just a bit lighter with epoxy than poly. Now f you use bias, impact, or any other cool cloth that can only be used only with epoxy, your durability is going to go way up.
The beauty of an epoxy EPS board is that you can get the weight down while maintaining a pretty durable board. You can also build one out of 3 lb EPS, glass it with 2x6 warp cloth, and make standard weight long board that will last 100 years.
If you want a really solid board, get a 1/8" balsa skinned compsand board. I have several that have no pressure dings at all. I think there’s some flexing of the skin to handle impacts, and the force may be distributed over a larger area. Whatever it is, these balsa skin compsand boards are the best for absorbing blunt force trauma, and way better than fiberglass and resin for handling sharp pointed impacts. They’ll still get dinged but it won’t be nearly as bad as a board without the balsa skin.
I think a good Bamboo skin board, like the boards Gary Young makes, may be even better.
To throw a curve ball into the discussion: The bottom of my PE boards look a lot worse than my EPS after a few months of surfing - pressure dings all over. I think the EPS/epoxy has more recovery.
On the top decks they look the same (both dinged to hell from my knees - despite 10mm pads!),. The EPS has 2oz/0.4mm bamboo / 4oz (sometimes4x4) deck and the PE 6x6
Are pressure dings on the deck a big deal??
My friends and I have gone to EPS epoxy on the last few builds and we see a huge difference in durability especially on the deck. To illustrate this point my buddy bought a new PU board from a local shaper because he got an insane hookup and after TWO surfs the deck was crushed and the stringer was about 1/4" proud of the surrounding foam. Dont get me wrong, he loves the board and it isnt continuing to get deeper but I was really surprised that the foam would crush that easily. The glass schedules are NOT equal so I would expect the eps epoxy to be stronger relative to the difference in the schedules.
His new PU board = 4x4 deck 4 bottom.
His EPS boards 6x6 deck 6 bottom.
The boards are similar in weight relative to the size of the board. He also prefers the feel of the EPS. Says its springier???????
I surf almost exclusively logs so I dont see that much difference (what would you expect?). But I am soon to be breaking out of my shell.
T
The eps I’vebeen using has lots of boing and twang,its more noticealbe on my longboards.The eps/epoxy boards that I’ve made with lighter glass jobs dent the same as a poly but way 1 to 2 pounds less on my shortboards.And it is bright white.
In terms of the way a board rides… not at all. For me it’s a matter of durability. My new Epoxy/EPS I am seeing the stringer start to pop already and I am only about 2 surfs in. The board is a 2lb EPS w/ 4x6 on top.
i'm willing to bet that post-cure has a big part to play in pressure dings
I thought epoxy reached about 90% of its strength in 1-2 days (depending on temp, resin type & catalyzer) and to hit 100% it takes 2 or 3 weeks. But that 10% shouldn’t make a significant or noticeable difference in strength?
Epoxy really likes to cure under pressure. Higher fiber/resin ratios help too. At the same board weight, there is no comparison Coil vs pu/pe. Our boards do footwell, but pressure dents from other causes require a really hard impact. Ask the people that ride them.
Thanks Mike, I have been keeping an eye on your boards here and on erBB. Really cool stuff. I saw one tucked in the back room at the surf station in FL a while back, but otherwise I haven’t had the chance to check one out in person. I just got 3 new boards otherwise I would be PM’ing you for info on pricing, shipping etc. You’ll probably be hearing from me in 6 months or so.
I use 3# foam on my wakesurf builds and the one i built with 2oz innegra S seems to be very dent resistant the blank is 1.675 thick in main body and glassed it with Eglass 4/2inn/4 for deck and 6/2inn on bottom on a stringerless blank . the next one i will try will be 6/2inn/1.5e and 4/2inn/1.5e
Like everyone else says, I find that bottom pressures and dings in general happen much, much more on poly boards (unless they’re from Moonlight :)) and eps/epoxy boards have better durability.
I still dent the living sh!t out of the decks of both, I need to fix a popup problem where I drag a knee which results in a deep and long well near the stringer on my toe side
I’m getting a Coil or a wood veneer on my next board
wood decks are good for deck crushers , down side is they are $$$
I do balsa sandwich deck, very little foot prints after long use.
I do veneer sandwich deck, more foot prints.
I do classic lam, quick foot prints then no more even with big lam schedule.
Now my last boards was multiaxial lam, it’s seem as strong as balsa sandwich for same weight. What is strange is there is not much pressure dent but it’s feel flexible.