Well its been a while sincw ive posted here, ita been a busy summer down in the Costa Del Kernow!
Ive had a great summer surfing my self made quiver and learning a lot in regards to which board to use when and what fin setup for conditions etc. I finally rose one board as a thruster and got on really well with it and I fell in love my twin fin!
Ive had it our in clean 2-3’ up to mushy head high and despite the odd Kooky moment im starting to understand it! Its great to have something that pivots so quickly and I can duck Dive!
Now winters coming im keen to shape something new to help with our winter swells and progress my surfing!
It must have some paddle to it and be easy to duck dive so i dont waste all my energy to the paddle out! And id like something with a little more performance than my mid lengths.
My biggest gripe with my curreny quiver is that i struggle to do good top turns! They all catch waves nice and early and are great for cruising, the egg especially lets me go where i want on the wave but with the local breaks all being beachies and 2-5’ generally it doesnt fit in the pocket!
Im thinking of a performance twin plus one fish. Perhaps similar to the fish C on blending curves and going for 6’-6’2 and 20.5-21" wide. More neutral centre point than the hybrids and some nice blended 60:40 rails.
What do you guys think? Obligatory build thread to follow!
Pictures, my friend. Pictures. We can’t see where you are in your progression as a surfer or a builder without pictures of what you’ve already done with your boards.
Yeah man, heres a few of the boards. I do t have any of my surfing. Just took the fish ouy tonight after a very hectic week and i struggled with the paddle out. Not normally a problem but i would like to go less on the volume front.
Cant find any pics of my 6’7 right now but ill look again
Shaping wise im quite confident, but im not quite as confident i glassing if it came to channels etc
Btw im coming up to 30, weigh 180 and 5’9. Reasonably fit but have a busy life. Surf 2-3 times a week most weeks
Someone your size shouldn’t be having problems duckdiving either of those boards. You do need to figure out how to get enough leverage over the nose (first) and then the tail using that rocking motion.
Fishes are not a forgiving design in general, and they’re even less forgiving once you get beyond 6ft in length. Especially in small beachbreak
You shouldn’t be having any problems with that egg other than it perhaps being a little too long to fit the wave shape for small brachbreak conditions. MOST people who have problems turning a board aren’t standing far enough back on the tail when they turn. So regardless of what you build next you should continue to work on your form and technique on the egg, as those skills will be useful with any board.
You also might consider playing around with fin clusters on that egg, too. That can make a big difference.
For sure there is a lot of practice amd experience needed to dial in my techniques! The 6’7 i have is the hardest to duck and i think its about 50L!
The yellow 7’2 does go under the waves, but like you say, the length doesnt allways work. It seems to have a sweet spot up too 2’ then from 4’ up. For the 2-4’ range its not my go too. Its got a 2+1 cluster, i run it with either a 7’ volan fin by its self or with some 3.5inch honeycombe side bites. Do you have any recomendations i might enjoy?
Its actually a great board, its taught me to pump down the line, and also have that lazy upright fluid single fin experience, nice cut backs and trims lovely! But alas i do struggle with those steeper top turns. I will work on my positioning, oddly i find back hand (im regular) easier to bring back round.
I actually find the fish easy to get into waves on, as soon as your up and out the gate it flys, holds in line, and goes where you take it but as soon as its messy i find it hard to have a good session. Take this evening for instance, waist to chest high but rippy and messy, on the paddle out you know theres two fins back there!
I guess with this in mind, im really looking for something in between these two. My 6’ 7 has its place but at neary 3" thick, with 50:50 boxy rails it doesnt engage quite like the other two! Do you think i need to look down the hybrid/egg route or would i find it more beneficial too my surfing to have a more performance based fish? Whick will work better in my desired range?
I do plan on shaping a reasonable quiver over time but for now, im mostly keen on opening new lines and techniques with out taking too large of a step!
Okay, it seems like you’re getting an idea of what you do and don’t want.
I’m not really a fan of the blending curves site. I think it makes more sense to download BoardCad and start working on your own curves and combinations. One feature of the CAD programs is that they have 3D rendering that enables you to see a 3D version of what you’re trying to do. Plus, you can do 5 variations on the same theme before narrowing it down to the one that speaks to you.
Now from what you’re saying about your surfing and your shaping I invite you to consider the possibility of using a round tail in the 6-0 or 6-2 lengths you’re talking about. Something along the lines of a Rusty Dwart type template. The Alt A on the blending curves site with a moderate 4/2 rocker and a twin-biased quad setup with 5" twinnie for the fronts and a 4" or slightly smaller rears, set out at the rail. Just do a flat bottom with a sharp edge and a touch of vee in the tail (like 1/8th) along with the rounded tail will give you plenty of release in your turns. The fin combo will set the sweet spot for your rear foot forward considerably when compared to a thruster setup. Since you don’t have a lot of experience shaping and this is a wide shape with plenty of surface area I’d skip the concaves for now until both your surfing and shaping progress further.
A round tail will not be as drivey as a swallow or square tail but it also won’t be as stiff or twichy in the turns. You’ll eventually get to the point where you’ll be better equipped to surf those shapes but for now a tail that will provide the real predictable feel might be just the ticket. For the quad setup, bigger guys tend to favor single foil fins set out at the rails for the rears, whereas the lighter surfers tend to favor the asymmetric double foils set inboard a bit.
At your weight and skill level you want some volume but not too much. At your weight I’d shoot for 37-40 liters at the most. You only need enough float to comfortably float - your paddle speed will be in your widths and to a much lesser extent your length. 6-2 x 20.5 x 2.65" and a moderate foil will put you right in that range without being too short or too wide to comfortably turn. For the deck and rails, if you leave the deck flat and use a bevel to drop the rails to a moderate size you can max your volume without running into problems getting the rails to hold. That’s an easier deck profile to shape consistently anyway.
With all that said, there are any number of different ways to skin your cat and much will depend on how you want to surf the board AND how generic or how specialized you want this board to go . Since you already have a couple other boards it may be time to be looking for holes to fill in your quiver rather than the all-around compromise. You apparently have a van so you can probably bring two boards with you every time you go to surf. One for better conditions and the other for worse, make the choice between the two when you get there and can see what conditions you’re dealing with.
Well Gdaddy, i downliaded boardCad earlier, and ill be honest i dont have a clue how to use it. Im fairly illiterate with computers!
However i will take your advice on board, and build a round tail but with a 5 fin set up for the best of both worlds. Now i jnow youve mentioned keeping the bottom sinple but i have put more complex concaves on all of the previous boards, mainly designed around a slight belly in the nose to single through and corresponiding tails. I had a very flat egg previously which i did feel stick a bit, compared to the mild single on my yellow egg which is rather floaty of that makes sence. Obviously im still learnig the feel of all the different details, but, would you suggest going for a mild single through out with a little dooible to V out the back, instead of flat?
Ill keep the deck flat and work the rail down, this rail and deck combo feels great on my fish, however ill go more towards 60/40 to aid that sink and release. My fish actually has a 60/40 but its a slight down at the same time if that makes sence.
Now i find that the 3.5" nose and 1.5" tail in my fish easy to make the drop on. Would the 4/2 you suggested require a bit of belly for the larger waves? Or compensate with a little kick in the nose?
I would say a weak point in my surf had been nailing those steeper take offs but recently ive started to enjoy those! Its really about having the correct volume to help me get out and back in on those bigger days! And i feel, like you say, the round tail would give me a smoother transition from rail to rail.
You say about the rusty dwart, do you think i need the wings or just go for a more generic round tail?
I am concidering eps for this board, as i run epoxy resin anyway. Should i drop the volume a little to compensate?
I move house at the start of decmber with two new workshops and i may welm be naughty, shape this in a 6’2 and shape a 6’ twin plus triailer swallow too! Id use the swallow when its 2-4 and the round tail for those juicy days where i need all the help u can get!
Since you’re just starting out (shaping wise) I’d recommend sticking to the basics. If you like a template on Blending Curves then just do that. The reason i suggest playing around with the CAD is because it enables you to see 3D renderings of MANY variations of your design before you even select a blank, whereas you have to wait to see what it will look like when you’re using a new-to-you template.
At a 6-2 length you should just skip the wings for now, it’s just another headache on both the shaping AND glassing sides. From your description of your ability, I’d skip the 5-box setup, too, and optimize everything for a quad setup. MOST surfers surf better on a quad than on a thruster. Almost every time I’ve converted a board from a thruster to a quad by adding two more side boxes I will also have converted that surfer to a quad-only program. When the board takes off from under them on that first drop it’s almost always an “oh sht” moment for them. You have to be a good surfer - which excludes most of us - to make a thruster actually surf better than a quad.
As for bottom contours, if you were going narrow (like 18"-19") I’d suggest the concave because its use is to flatten the rocker down the center and increase surface area and lift. But with wide shapes you already have the additional surface area and lift - what you need more with those is control over those larger surfaces. So that’s where convex comes in. It will loosen the board up and provide more natural release in your turns.
But like I said - this is your project, your learning curve and your call. If you need to do a dozen wide boards with various concaves before you try a flat bottom with a tucked rail then go forth and do that. Half the fun of doing your own is trying different ideas out to see what you like more and what you like less.
Everything Gdaddy says makes sense. Here are a couple of other things you might consider as a general frame of reference - things that might be more apparent with the 3D computer diagram Gadday mentions… in general, top turn difficulty can be traced to several different things in the board’s design:
Wide point too far forward.
Lack of hip curve through the tail.
Rails foiled with fattest part too far forward.
Lack of adequate tail rocker.
Fin design and placement.
Any single component in this list could be the culprit but it is not unusual to find more than one in a single board, especially on a home made board that hasn’t had the bugs worked out design-wise. The pros who have spent some time refining various designs using computer programs and with feedback from skilled team riders are miles ahead in this area.
I have found that by ensuring adequate outline curve - sometimes just by placing the widepoint back a bit, and boosting the tail rocker while leaving a bit of rail thickness at the midpoint (or even a bit aft of midpoint) you will effectively shorten the ‘turning radius’ of a board and possibly allow easier turns off the top.
Fins that are too big, or clusters spread out too far, lack of toe-in or cant on side fins, etc. might all add up to a stiffer board that wants to track.
Well guys, ive stewed on your recomendations and advise over the last few days, but first, after a week or so hiatus on the beach, i got a great session this sunday!
It was 3-5 foot with the odd rogue set. Took the fiah out and just wasnt getting in to waves, too tired to paddle round and paddle in! So i took my trusty 6’7 out, as a tri fin. Paddling was easy i caught a few then sat out waiting for some nice waves. Caught a rogue on the outside and as i dropped in it jacked up nicely. Well ocer head high as im coming sown the line and i saw that spot for the top tun and boom, off the top and down the face! It was genuinely one of the best waves ive caught, and the close out was sp steep it was like looking at a wall!!! I was buzzzzzzing!
Any how, Im starting to understand where your directing me with this, so far ive built these boards with a little insight but no actuall knowledge. Ive built them with a view to my ability and the style of surfig i want to do. This is different with the next board as i have some goals.
So, flatish bottom, quad fin, round tail for that smooth rail to rail, 6’-6’2, ill keep a neutral wide point, sharp edge in the tail and a little rocker.
Would you suggest keeping the stringer tail rocker at 2" and adding a little rail rocker with the V?
If i keep the bottom flat, will i feel more track or more slide through the turns?
I came across the neil purchase jr quartet at the weekend, and it looks great. I think thats the kind of thing im after, but is the nose in that stylw a little wide?
