OK…but I was gonna do some resin swirls, so wetting out the folded cloth won’t give me the pattern I want to achieve. What I plan on doing is tinting a batch of epoxy that I’ll use as a base color, then dividing that in half and swirling in the colors into one half. Then I like to brush the rails on the underside (kinda working upside down) with the base tint, then pattern the swirled resin on the bottom the way I like. I let that soak in a minute, then top it off with the base color to fill in the gaps. Then I start spreading out the excess toward the rail. The brushed-on resin on the deck rails ensures an easy lap, which is double saturated as I work out the excess. This way I avoid spilling too much (expensive) epoxy on the floor, but still get the cool color patterns. My goal is to find a foam that will absorb only a limited amount of lam resin so it avoids both the excess weight issues you deal with with not adding any stopper coat whatsoever (microballoons, spackle, et.), as well as doing away with the sealing step completely.
If anybody has used the Surfcore USA foam, I’d love to hear from you.
U-huh. Gotcha. Where are you gonna do this? Coz the environment will have some impact.
If you equalise your blank with the environmental temp and then maintain that temp (like a good R/C air con) you can minimise (but probably not completely mitigate) the blank’s “breathing”.
If you lam/glass in climbing temp you’ll get bubbles. In falling temp she’ll suck epoxy.
What’s the reason behind no sealing coat? If you seal with, say 50-100mls per side and then take that much off you lam epoxy… Just thinkin.
I was planning on glassing in a falling temp environment, thinking any exotherm would mitigate the resin pull as the blank cools. But, again, I don’t know… it’s just a theory.
I’m just trying to (1) eliminate the the entire step to keep the whole process moving faster, (2) avoid the expense and hassle of the microballoon/epoxy process and dealing with blush, re-sanding, etc., and (3) getting the ultimate foam/lam bond. But, I am concerned with excess weight, and the possibility of the resin getting sucked right out of the cloth and leaving a billion pinholes.
Yeah, reckon you’ll find the dropping temp will have the blank sucking resin to some extent. Can’t see how exotherm will mitigate that. Even a fast setting epoxy will take time to set (longer than poly) and in that time… Suck, suck, suck.
Careful measuring might help, but not as much as wetting out on a separate table. You going to do all the layers of glass in one hit? If you make it two step you could do one layer and then resin swirl the remainder. Sounds like you don’t want more than a one-step process, tho.
Don’t loose sight of this being a trade-off game, either. Ultimate bond (compsand aside) is going to mean heavier end-product. Unless you add extra steps. Round and round
The thinned spackle dries in a few minutes and is ready for lamination. The epoxy resin then penetrates the dried microballoons and bonds with the foam. It’s just porous enough to keep the resin from pouring through the blank. In effect you get a microballoon epoxy seal coat without waiting for an epoxy seal coat to cure before applying the lam coat. People need to realize this. Loehr’s way is the fastest way. And it’s a lot easier to sand microballoons than an epoxy microballoon mix. Read fast!
I don’t understand why we are still talking about this. What is this the Spring semester? Archives people. Keywords: Loehr spackle
I don’t understand why we are still talking about this. What is this the Spring semester? Archives people. Keywords: Loehr spackle
Right or wrong, there’s no reason to be a jerk about it.
And, BTW, I think you’re wrong:
I think crystalline silica is A.K.A. cabosil, not A.K.A. microballoons. Crystals are, of course, solid, not hollow.
Quote:
Cabosil M-5 untreated fumed silica is a fine white synthetic amorphous colloidal silicon dioxide (similar to Gasil 23). It has an extremely small particle size of 0.2 to 0.3 microns. It is a versatile filler which has won favor with many art conservators in Europe; we are pleased to be able to offer it in the US. Cabosil M-5 is particularly versatile. Try it with lacquers and pigments, where its small particle size offers advantages over other fillers. -conservationresources.com
Quote:
Microballoons are a specially processed silica glass, classified to insure uniform particle size and product performance and is hydrophopic (does not readily adsorb moisture). It disperses extremely well when mixed with various resins or plaster. Microballoons do not absorb resin and therefore provide maximum filler function. Cured systems are more water resistant and have a higher temperature resistance in addition to being more thermal and electrical resistive. - eagerplastics.com
Well… as has been demonstrated around here numerous times there are often several ways to skin a cat. Jim Phillips and others must have reasons to not use plain old light weight wallboard spackle. I would think there’s a reason why SFoam recommends the epoxy bog?
Greg Loehr himself might be the last to adopt a “My way or the highway” approach.
From what I gather, there are different qualities to “silicate” depending on the applications. Kind of like “EPS” or “Epoxy”… hard to generalize when there are so many different varieties?
The MSDS to which Mark posted a link lists the substance underlined below as the main ingredient… No mention if it’s balloon, bubble or crystalline but I think Benny is correct as to the exact form being an important distinction as to “general filler” vs “microballoons.”
“Sodium Potassium Aluminum Silicate.”
Also says it may contain…
“Crystalline Silica: Quartz.”
The ingredients listed on the spackle I used stated “Amorphous Silicate”… my dictionary lists one definition of amorphous to mean “not crystalline.” Sorry but I’m still not very clear as to it’s exact physical form.
Frankly, after reading the MSDS and consulting the dictionary, I feel stupid and confused. Not that it really matters. The original question simply asked if there was a way to speed up the drying process. No doubt spackle dries faster and is easier to sand than epoxy bog.
Certainly nothing to get excited and personal about?
From what Greg has told me Dap FNF spackle is fine and he hasnt had any problems with it. Also if your doing 2# and higher densiteis of EPS theres probably no need to seal but that may also depend on the quality of the particular foam your using. Greg recommends sealing when doing color work though and spackle gives you the best finish for color work, the epoxy/microballons is only fair for color work. Only way to really know is to try and see what works best for you.
I just received confirmation from Custom Building Products, makers of Patch n Paint, the product that John M. mentioned, that it does indeed contain MICROBALLOONS.
