Was wondering if anyone out there is still using V bottoms on high performance shortboards. Not talking a little V in the tail…I’m talking full blown V bottom. As I look back on the boards I’ve had over the past 30 years the best performers particularly in quality surf were all V bottoms. Everything on the racks these days is concave and I realize that for above the lip surfing that is the way to go. For those of us mortals who want to surf top to bottom and stay connected to the face a V bottom is what always worked best for me.
To give the youngsters out there an idea of what I’m talking about I took a couple of pictures of my all time favorite board. The board is a 6’6 x 19 3/4 x 2.5 shaped by Richard Price for me just before the Kelly Slater potato chip revolution kicked in. This 25 year old board is beat to death but I still drag it out on occasion. Back in the day you would have found pros like Scott McCrannels, Steve Anest, Baron Knowlton and Todd Holland riding very similar boards from Rich Price.
The first pic is just in front of the fins. Here you will find a whopping 9/16ths" of V
Next shot is under the front foot where you will find a little more than 1/8th
The third shot is at the logo under the chest. Once again 1/8th" of V. All the way up to the nose there is V on this sled.
Short answer, no. I don’t know of anybody doing substantial V on hpsb. But dead flat bottoms are used, which is a step away from the more common full concaves.
Those old boards had different rockers and thickness profiles, which worked with the V. There were lots of boards made in the 80s that had mild V with double con running through them. That was my go-to bottom all through the mid-late 80s
When boards first started to go very thin (late 80s here in Florida), the bottoms still had a little V. As the rockers started to increase a couple years later, the single-to-double con came on and helped “power” the lower-volume/higher rocker boards.
I’d suggest doing a version of your current favorite with a dead-flat bottom as only change, to test. If you want to try full V you’d probably want to flatten the centerline rocker and add some volume.
A few years back I did an experiment. I shaped two boards with the same template as my vintage board. One with the same V bottom as the original and the other with a triple concave. The V bottom board won hands down.
If it works better for you go with it. Rich shapes right down the street from me, you could contact him if you want to get a refresh on your old go-to.
About 20 years ago there was a well-known east coast shaper who was sticking with the V on his hpsb. A couple of that company’s pro team guys were getting a few boards from me on the side. They liked the full concave boards so much more that it led to me getting a job with the big company.
Horses for courses, or personal taste, it’s all good…
when i watch the young crew trying to surf that place with their concave bottoms I realize how much vee still has a place in certain breaks.
what’cha think am I wrong?
boards for breaks
vee and weight for sunset?
reverse vee(ala yellow board) for haleiwa?
George Ku (Hawaiian Surf Designs) once told me he invented the reverse vee panel (flat works better than concave) which is why he puts it on all his boards
and then everyone stole it from him like the C5 idea Rusty stole.
**This is a combination of double concave with Vee through the fin area and out the tail. This works awesome for off the bottom drive, speed and snapping turns.**
I ride a totally flat bottom hpsb, and it’s got flatter rocker than the super rocker potato chips. I like it. I’d definitely like to throw some vee in the tail of my 5’4" that has a 17" wide tail though.
I was actually unaware having the entire bottom be vee was even a thing. But I wasn’t alive 30 years ago so that might be the issue.
I’ve still got one 80’s trifin with vee running the entire length. It rides more stable, but less lively than flat or concave bottoms. It was a replacement of an earlier board, that was totally flat bottomed. There was a really big difference between the two.
Currently I’m liking beveled rails, flat bottoms with a concave through the tail, only the last 1/3 of the board. Concave through the tail lets me keep the stringer line flatter rockered, but keeping more tail rail rocker. Hope that made sense.
Hpsb may mean different things to different people, obviously. In the world where I work, they’re what one of the old posters here used to derisively call “pointy nosed thrusters”. It’s the board that won’t go away, in spite of all the predictions of its demise.
I still shape more of them than anything else because there’s still plenty of good surfers out there that use them to do this thing called modern surfing. Not exactly the most popular thing on this website, but that’s OK. Ride what you like…
Just my observations: The V bottomed boards catch bigger hollower waves easier. They feel more in control in steep hollow waves. They surf top to bottom better where concave boards feel like they outrun sections. Again, just my observations. Interesting someone above mentioned people with smaller feet. I’m 6’1 but only wear a size 9 shoe so I wonder if thats a factor in my preferences.
On a forum where a large number of participants design and create their own boards, it should come as no surprise that many don’t seek to imitate standard off-the-rack fare.
Those of us here who are older (like me and you) often make boards for ourselves to ride. Hey, if you’re out there on a modern high performance shortboard blasting airs, rodeo flips and ollies, or whatever the latest modern surfing aerial stunts are called, then more power to you. I think that stuff’s kinda fun to watch, but a lot of us don’t view surfing as a spectator sport, we’d rather be out there surfing, on a board that works for the way we surf.
Rusty Preisendorf sells a lot of hpsb’s, but himself rides bigger, thicker boards, by all accounts. Check out the Rusty Big Cat, or the Desert Island. There’s no shame in that. He’s smart enough to know what works for him. A lot of swaylocks guys tend to ride the boards they enjoy the most, without having to follow the crowd.
If you have the chance to ride the right break, there is nothing like a V-bottom such as a CI Black Beauty. In waves like Jeffrey’s Bay : it is epic. Maybe the ultimate carving surfing experience- nothing like it. It works best in long, fast waves where there is already plenty of speed and that speed can be harnessed with power… In typical average waves, though, it is not ideal. And it takes leg strength, and the desire to want to carve hard long arcs just for the feel of it. It’s not about airs, though, so that’s why it gets little attention these days.
Here is a clip of an open-minded young pro riding both the V-Bottom BB, and another typical concave design. (The BB has the black rails). See the difference in the full power, high speed carves, vs the double-pump bottom turn, flicky cutty of the typical concave hpsb under the feet of the same surfer?
What is modern surfing ? Is it just an opinion or is it something only some folks can do , does what they do have to have to be approved by others that can also do modern surfing, is it just subjective or can it be defined , can you cross over between modern surfing and other surfing , can you blend them together to make alternative surfing , does modern surfing go out of style and become non contempary surfing or old style surfing or traditional surfing , is modern surfing better than other kinds of surfing or is it just because you use the word modern that makes it better , does modern mean new surfing , how long is it new, is there a sell by date , is there a stigma if you cannot do modern surfing , are you somehow a lesser surfer and who decides . What is modern surfing ? I thought it was all just fun .
I do single concave for low volume hpsb, sometimes with light double and vee finish if i keep some Width and mid to low rocker in tail. For higher volume flatter and wider board i do a double concave on the last third part of board cut in more or less vee depend of tail Width and rocker.
“George Ku (Hawaiian Surf Designs) once told me he invented the reverse vee panel (flat works better than concave) which is why he puts it on all his boards”
Hi Bernie -
I don’t know when that would have been(?) My very first board was a 7’10" Morey-Pope “Deese Original” by Richard Deese that featured a deep forward vee. That would have been smack dab in the middle of the ‘transitional period.’
I too laughed when I saw Maurice Cole taking credit for the ‘reverse vee’ concept years later.
