Help!
We trying to determine if Erythina Variegata (tigers claw) is the same stuff as hawaiian wiliwili.
And how does this wood stand up to cedar, balsa, paulownia, redwood, or teak as a board making material for either hollows or laminated composite skins.
I know my ancestors made prices Olos and Alaias from wiliwili and the famous Bunker Spreckles fish was fastened from wiliwili.
Richard Mc?
Jim Phillips?
Ambrose?
Bill?
We have to know by this weekend.
No idea if it’s good for surfboards, but check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_tree
Kit
P.S. ha ha just took a closer look at the photo from that link, it’s from Auckland, New Zealand, my home town.
Now i’m really interested!
Howzit oneula, I've used Wiliwili wood for tail blocks and it worked real nice, but as with most woods I precoat the wood with lam resin, kick it off then laminate over it. the precoat seals the oils so they won't delam the glass.Aloha,Kokua
I found some info:
“coral tree,” “Indian coral tree,” “tiger’s claw,” “dadap”
syns. E. indica Lam.; E. corallodendron var. orienfalis (L.) Merr.
Indigenous from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific Islands; possibly an aboriginal introduction into some areas of Melanesia, Polynesia, and Micronesia, but a recent introduction into some of the smaller islands of the eastern Pacific. Medium to large deciduous tree, up to 25 m high, with the trunk and branches usually bearing coarse, spiny thorns; broadly triangular-ovate trifoliate leaves; numerous attractive, claw-like, bright dark red or scarlet flowers; and black pods containing bright red to brownish red, ovoid seeds. Common in rural agricultural areas as a vegetatively reproduced living fence or boundary marker, as a shade tree for coffee or a windbreak; occasional in home gardens and as a roadside tree; occasionally naturalized. Planted as living fencing, boundary markers, living pig and livestock pens, as a nitrogen-fixing and green manure plant, as shade for coffee in Papua New Guinea, and as an omamental; trunks and thick branches used in light construction and in canoe construction in the past; flowers used in garlands in the past; seeds of ornamental and religious value; bark and seeds used to stupify fish in Vanuatu.
The wood of the Erythrina is very light and porous; and it is used for the construction of rafts, model aircrafts and beehives.
mahalo Kokua
how rare is it to get?
I’m about to possible be blessed with several tons of it.
we’re thinking of making some olo or hot curl or an alaia boards to honor the gift…
Aloha Oneula,
Sorry I can’t give you a diffinitive answer, but I’ll throw out a few things I know about wiliwili. As you are aware, the tree is endemic to Hawaii, growing naturally nowhere else in the world. It has acclamated over the years here in Hawaii from its ancestoral trees that originated in the Himalaya in Nepal, then to Africa, then to Austrailia, the south Pacific, and finally to Hawaii.
It sounds as if you are considering milling a wiliwili tree?? As you also know the wasp is invading the wiliwili tree and killing them throughout the Hawaiian islands. There is a single road above Wailea here on Maui where I noticed 40+ dead wiliwili trees, many of which are three feet in diameter at the base of the trunk.
From what limited info I have, the Erythina Variegata (tigers claw) you mentioned in your post is called a “false wiliwili” though very similar to the true wiliwili. The redwoods, cedars, and yellow pines have a specific gravity of .40 to .48 or so which is, as you know, a measure of a wood’s hardness. Comparatively, balsa has a specific gravity of only .17. Wiliwili is not as soft as balsa but comparative in hardness to basswood, but still a bit softer. The grain of wiliwili is a bit more “stringly” or fibery than basswood. Depending on where the tree grows (from coastline up to as high as 2,000ft. elevation, the wood can vary in density, being a tad softer near the coastline.
Again, based on what limited knowledge I have, I would say it would be a suitable wood to use for what you have in mind IF the wood is properly milled and dried. There’s nothing too striking about the grain or color, as it is a light tan color with no real distinctive graining. The best thing about it is that it has Hawaiian “soul”. If you can find a dead or downed tree and harvest the lumber, you’ll be giving new life to a Hawaiian legacy tree.
Keep us posted and enjoy the ride!
Richard McCormick
Here on Kauai there is Erythrina Sandwicensis and Erythrina variegata. The Sandwicensis is the native tree and is a smaller tree and has a short gnarled trunk. The color of the flowers are different shades of orange. The fruit pods are small about 4 inches long. It’s hard to find these guys with a tall trunk for making lumber. The variegata the one that you have is a taller tree and can be found with bigger tall trunks. The flowers are dark red and the fruit pods ar big, 6 to 12 inches long. The variegate is the best one for lumber as the trunk is bigger. The wood is about the same ,Sandwicensis sometimes has more color to it. If I had the chance to get a log I would for sure mill it for making surfboards. But the post pouder beatles like it so you best know how to deal with that. Two ways as soon as it is cut down mill it and get it into a kilne fast like the same day you mill it. It is hot enough so the beatles wont bother it and once it is bellow about 16% mosture they don’t get in it anymore. The other way is to strip the bark and paint the log with chemicals which will keep the beatles away untill it can be milled. I won’t give you the how to on the chemicals here because it is nasty stuff and if not used carefully , well!!! The stuff mills like butter with a bandsaw mill. It needs to be stickered and strapped or weighted down while drying. I was heart broken when the developers of the new Cost Co here on Kauai cut down the very big Sandwicensis that was at the border of their lot. It was one of the few that I have seen that was big enough to get 10ft boards out of. Aloha Wood-Ogre
Here is some Kauai grown balsa, stickered and strapped and drying. Wiliwili is done the same way.
Wood_Ogre
Wiliwili is Hawaiian balsa, balsa grows world wide, but the best wood comes from the region closest to the equator.
Wood from that area has an extra carbon atom and this is believed to be the lightest.
The further from the equator, the heavier the wood becomes.
Quiet Flight Surfboards from Cocoa Beach brought some back from the big island and had me incorporate it into some of their boards.
It was heavier than south american, with a good amount of knots to try and work around.
Tom Stone had a wiliwili finless that he showed me on the north shore, it was VERY light. the tree being harvested after dying, from Duke’s land.
mahalo Richard, Wood Ogre and Jim…
To give you an idea of what we’re are faced with, below is a photo we took to show the scale of the wiliwili tree soon to be cut down and thrown away. I don’t know of anyone with a truck big enough(it’ll take a semi with a rig) to haul most of this away if not a big enough proper place to store it to cure. We have one local wood board maker(Mike Casey) who we contacted but out of respect will allow him a say to bring in more folks who could really appreciate this gift.
Here’s the scale.
My brother’s around 5’7". The photo has been altered to protect the site as we are still in the process of securing rights to wood from the tree. Each of those tree limbs is big enough to make a canoe out of…
I’ve felt the wood in my hands and it feels beautiful.
I think we will need a priest to bless the sacrifice from the aina but the tree is dying and is a danger.
This guy may be called to do a blessing and to take some home but I have to get clearance. I know he’ll know the proper things to do in a situation like this…
mahalo Richard, Wood Ogre and Jim…
To give you an idea of what we’re are faced with, below is a photo we took to show the scale of the wiliwili tree soon to be cut down and thrown away. I don’t know of anyone with a truck big enough(it’ll take a semi with a rig) to haul most of this away if not a big enough proper place to store it to cure. We have one local wood board maker(Mike Casey) who we contacted but out of respect will allow him a say to bring in more folks who could really appreciate this gift.
Here’s the scale.
My brother’s around 5’7". The photo has been altered to protect the site as we are still in the process of securing rights to wood from the tree. Each of those tree limbs is big enough to make a canoe out of…
I’ve felt the wood in my hands and it feels beautiful.
I think we will need a priest to bless the sacrifice from the aina but the tree is dying and is a danger.
This guy may be called to do a blessing and to take some home but I have to get clearance. I know he’ll know the proper things to do in a situation like this…
Beautiful mature tree.
This tree looks like an ornamental that has a short trunk and many twisted branches.
Howzit oneula, With the wasp destroying them they are getting more rare all the time. The last time I saw them is a couple of years ago while hunting goats on the Ulupalakua Ranch on on East Maui. Therre were quite a few growing aroung the lava flows. This is a private ranch with only limited access but a good friend is the ranch maitaince man so I have been all over it hunting for boar and goat. Haven’t been there since the wasp thing started so I have no idea of their status. One thing no one has mentioned is those nasty thorns that they have.Aloha,Kokua
As I mentioned in my PM to you, proper sealing of the end grains, stickering, stacking, and protection from direct sun and rain is absolutely crucial. I mention this again here on the thread for the sake of anyone considering milling and drying their own lumber. I have had experience cutting and drying koa, walnut, cherry, and oak over the years, and again, the drying and stacking process is crucial. To overlook this is to ruin the lumber.
Most always, it’s best to air dry any lumber for a few months prior to taking it to be kiln dried, as lumber does not want to be dried quickly. However, I agree with wood ogre, in that the tree is no doubt infested with the wasp that is killing the wiliwili tree here in Hawaii, and the temps used in the kiln process will kill them. Be careful with certain chemicals in that some can bleed and wick through the wood causing stain. Walnut wood is often “steamed” first in the kiln so as to darken the color the white sap wood ring just under the bark layer. Purists like myself don’t like steamed wood however, because it tends to dull the rich color of the grain. In the case of your tree though, the steam process might help kill the wasps without drying the wood too quickly. Any professional kiln operator will know all about this.
As I also mentioned, and for the sake of others, the cost for trucking, milling and kiln drying, along with the space required for stickering and stacking can be a large investment. It takes a lot of time, money, and patience. Many people, after attempting the process, are happy to just go to the lumber yard and buy nice dry lumber ready to go. But when you find a “special” tree there is no choice. It is a beautiful and prideful process to take a tree that has come to the end of its long life, and patiently and reverently take the tour to the place where a beautiful handmade object sits finished in front of the craftor. Talk about enjoying the ride!
Aloha,
Richard
Richard is giving a lot of good information here which I wont repeat. It has taken me a life time to learn how to harvest wood right and I lost a lot of good wood learning. If you can not find a solution there is the possibility with a tree that size that Winkler wood products would be interested in it as they have the mill and kilne and if they think it is of value they would ship it to their mill. In the past we have sent logs to them from Kauai. Aloha Wood_Ogre
sadly I don’t think we have the resources(as Richard indicates) and time not to lose most of that tree since it’s going down tomorrow morning.
we will do the best we can with what we have and when we are done I’ll post you a picture of where it came from and you can see why it’s very important to us that we do this thing right.
Pohaku will be there to help out so that’s a good sign
I just don’t want to see any of it go to waste or be black marketed for profit and dishonor my culture.
Boards from just one limb could last me a life time of vacuum bagged sandwich laminations in place of the balsa I am importing from the mainland versus boring out planks for a chambered or carving an olo from a solid block…
I think there’s some importance to this tree and the folks who originally planted it…
I’ll need to research it with the owners…
Those folks need to be repaid somehow…
Aloha Oneula,
I’ll ask this weekend. I’ll be at a wood mill. Mike Casey and I will be milling very large wiliwili tree. Who’s doing your milling?
I can teach you to bend (rocker) your wood using only mother nature. A technique from da master craftsman Mike Casey.
oops? is that the tree? we will be milling?
Just by experience from the last time Mike and I milled large planks (16’ x 30"wide x 4" thick). I don’t think that tree will yield a surfboard. We milled a log (mango tree) 20’ long x over 3 ft diameter and only came up with one good plank.
are you guys buying the wiliwili or selling it to mike?
aloha
Oneula,
Hopefully, you did not lose this tree to Mike or the owner of the mill. I know that mike would not cheat anyone nor would this mill.
Just to be clear here
Harry out of courtesy called Mike about the tree
It’s Harry’s project he did all the calling and arranging with the state and the tree trimmer
But it’s not Mike’s tree or our tree or Tom Stone’s tree
The tree belong to the Queen as it’s on her land in front of her house.
Someone planted it long long ago out of respect for the area so we need to honor that.
We need to be very careful here because this is a state historic site and the last thing we want is the state and the docents or the arborist to get back involved and put a stop to this all.
We want to make sure everyone gets what they need and nothing is wasted.
I just want enough to resaw into sheets I can use for my skinned compsands.
This will be alot of work
but a honorable work at that…
but right now I am very sad it’s come down to this
And just to document this all now that it seems dollar signs may have influenced someone to go behind our backs to take the whole thing for their pocketbook, below are the pictures we toook yesterday to show where the tree is located and it’s scale. We believed there’s enough here for alot of folk so we called a couple folk and that we also felt that we should make something to return to the palace or use the funds from itmes made from the wood to donate to maintenance of the palace. Not to just go into someone’s pocketbook but perhaps this is what’s become of Hawaii and Hawaiians…
We give aloha and then we get stomped on and ripped off.
I pray we are wrong about all this…
This majestic item will be no more tomorrow…
It sat in front of the Iolani Palace for many years maybe perhaps when the Queen was imprisoned there many years ago by other greedy foreigners back then too…
I’m glad we had our offline chat. I’m sure Mike is not out to cheat Harry or our beloved queen. Just seemed so funny how mike called regarding milling some wood this weekend and not building my standup? Call if you or harry want some PU blanks.
aloha