Anyone want to invent some synthetic dolphin skin applicable to the bottom of a surfboard?

General Discussion
1

I’ve thought about the dolphin skin thing on numerous occasions after studying a dead pilot whale that washed up at Blacks, and also on a Dolphin I found on the beach in Carlsbad. It occurred to me that if one could somehow scan the dolphins fins and have an exact reproduction of the fins applied to where and how they would be placed on a surfboard, we could quite possibly do the same with the dolphin or pilot whale’s skin. You could take a sample of about 1 square foot, and digitally reproduce that to cover the bottom surface area of a surfboard. Somehow this could be applied to the bottom of a board, and one might get the similar speed results on one’s surfboard as we see in Dolphins that surf in the wild. I mean come on, people have already turned the shark camo thing into a full bottom sticker… why couldn’t we produce a 3M synthetic Dolphin Skin sticker or polymer of sorts???

-Kawika

Artisan Surf Designs / Falkenau Surfboards

(This post was edited by Kawika on Nov 16, 2007, 12:45 PM)

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Kawika

Member since: Thu Sep 08 2005

Location: Oceanside, CA

Status: Member

   <span style="font-weight:bold"> Re: [Kawika] Surfer Stuns Physicists With Theory of Everything!    Posted:  Nov 16, 2007, 12:44 PM

Post # 18 of 18 ( 6 views) [In reply to] Edit | Quote | Reply 

Imagine the possibilities that could arise from this.... this could be applied to the bottoms of every ocean-going vessel saving billions of dollars every year in the use of petroleum products that are consumed by just the shipping industry alone, not to mention what is used recreationally.... okay... I've said enough... time to go wood shedding... I'll immerge in a month or two with some sort of testable product.... hahahahahahahaha.... but no.... seriously......if the entire swaylocks community pitched in some cash, some research, and time in the field... we could collectively come up with a product... and none of us would ever have to work again! We could just design and shape boards and spend the rest of our lives surfing on them! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ANY TAKERS???

-Kawika

Artisan Surf Designs / Falkenau Surfboards

2

Would it really be that noticeable on a surfboard?

“and one might get the similar speed results on one’s surfboard as we see in Dolphins that surf in the wild”

…maybe if the synthetic skin comes with muscles and a tail…

3

Can you make a plaster cast of the next dolphin you find on the beach:?

I’ll help you with getting it on a board.

Just come over with the board.

Soul

4

it is an interesting thought. wetsuit designers have put something of a “shark skin” on triathlon suits… not sure it’s the same principle. i guess it would have to be at a ‘nano’ level (or at least pretty small) might be kind of expensive for a surfboard… or not…

5

Isn’t this the whole laminar flow thing that the yacht guys are always on about?

I thought 3M actually did come up with some kind of applique for the hulls which was banned in World Cup competition?

6

Pretty sure they did. Pretty sure it was based on sharks skin.

7

Tenyears ago I talked with the Director of 3M Aerospace Division about the Ribblet Film. He was the top guy on the project. True it’s banned from International Yacht Racing. He also told me they were working on a new version with Airbus. This was ten years ago like I said. They had just thrown out the last scrap of a roll of the Americas Cup stuff. It was then over ten years old and brittle.

Old news.

Google Fast Skin from Speedo. Search Swaylocks archives. This has all been hashed out. Sanded is the standard surfing equivalent. What works works.

8

there’s a whole series of problems with this type of interpolation.

If you read a couple of those articles I posted on Mark’s posts you see that the dolphin benefits from a couple of things.

First of all it’s one huge piece of mallable muscle controlled by a rather large brain full of crackling neuron synapses that allow it to manipulate it’s body to the pressure wave it feels around it as well as use it’s tail as needed to keep it laminar. That’s kind of why they know how to effectively use the pressure gradiants of the wakes to play in.

So while the body is flexing, muscles contorting and tail providing thrust as needed, it’s thick and spongy epidermal skin is providing a layer to absorb flow disturbances because it inserts itself partially into the flow itself than rubbing hard up against it cause its so porous. Just like what a sanded or roughed out finish is trying to do but in a grander scale.

The other thing that is happening is that as water contacts and flows through this spongy layer of skin, it is also very breakable so that whenever there’s any pressure gradients building up against the contacted surface the skin particles just give way and break off releasing the accumulating pressure/resistance and returning the flow more towards laminar.

I would guess this is what the new nano-particle coating they are painting the bottoms of large container ships is doing to reduce contamination that increases drag and fuel consumption.

So its this combination of the flexing and contortion of the body along with the flow integrated with breakaway particles of the skin that allows the dolphin to reach speeds they shouldn’t based on assumed resistance. Having the brain and nerve structure to coordinate and drive all this is muscle activity is even a more complex component.

So to take a piece of what you think is happening and slap it on a stiff non-intelligent and conforming device may be wasting more energy than what you get out of it. Slap on a high tech speedo suit on a human and your a little closer to the concept.

glue on rubber ridge-skins were available in the 70’s for boats and boards I had one on my boards back then to test it

rubbing a thick layer of soap from a couple of bars did the same thing as did a cost of resined on alkaseltzer powder.

Subs have been using ribs for along time

But to create an intelligent core that can manipulate it self to get rid of the pressure gradients and associated cavitation that occurs because of them because if it is a whole other challenge.

Morey talked about it when he was on acid in the 70’s made somethings later that are pretty close

Jim Richardson is following suit with his tangent

The Campbell Brothers tried their take on moving the cavitation point away

and Bert’s doing his tangent in trying to make make a smarter platform

Part of the new thinking is that if the benefit obtained is not justified by the resources and energy required to produce it then in the end it’s a losing battle as hype has an extremely short half life. One way outflows can only last so long just like the general expansion of the universe.

Also the half life of hype is also getting shorter and shorter as global communication improves

9

Thank you Oneula,

I think I have to come and surf with you in Hawaii, because there must be something in the water there.

The clean thinking must come from clean water and air.

Too much cold dirty water in Holland.

Soul

10

Hi Kawika, I put 4mm neoprene over the bottom and top of the Flipper paipo I made and it feels like it ‘releases water pressure’ and at the same time it softens the feedback. I thought it’d have a similar effect to dolphin skin but dolphins are pretty firm, maybe I shouldve used thinner stuff.

On a similar vein, in the 80’s I tried coating surfboard hulls with oil and adhesives to give a slippery hydrophobic effect, it worked well but wore off quickly. Maybe you could make sachets of "SURFSPEED " to make boards faster.

I admire your positive thinking, good idea about the 3M film…

SF.

11

How many dolphins are required?

12

…speed finish is the easiest way for now…

13

I had the opportunity to swim with a large pod Dolphins a few years ago in NZ and I was amazed at how fast they could just glide through the water without using their tail fins just holding still.

I was flippers on and I was swimming as fast as I could and they just glided past wihtout moving.

Sure the skin must make a difference but would’nt the fact that they are quite a heavy soild mass and their momentum carries them along. Surfboards are like feathers compared to them.

14

Check these out Kawika

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=233728;search_string=Hydrophilic;#233728

http://www.seaslide.com/

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=282518;search_string=clear%20hydrophilic;#282518

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THD-4BN0J44-2&_user=10&_coverDate=05%2F31%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=1578e6a77a5dd71a705d5a9cd799277c

Hydrophilic Drag Reduction Coating

The hydrophilic lubricious coating S-168 is designed to reduce water friction 7 - 14% depends on the size and speed of the water vehicle. 　Excellent drag reduction is demonstrated on canoe, sail boat, fishing boat, small yacht, water ski and surfing applications. 　S-168 coating enhances the acceleration and maneuvering capability of the water vehicle tremendously under the laminar flow condition (moving vehicle with the speed less than a few knots).　 The coating helps many athletes won awards in the sail boat, water ski and surfing contests in the US, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. 　It is simple to apply the coating on the surfing board or the ship bottom.　 Just paint/spray/flow S-168 on the substrate surface and allow air dry for a few hours before getting into water.

[

http://www3.jetro.go.jp/ttpp/EAN.CR06_EAN?id=1057734&corner_id=999

You can coat 2 or 3 surfboards by a bottle

of HYDROMANCER. and its effect will last more than a year.