Appropriate rails for board type

I’m working on a ‘overhead’ board project for myself, it’s a 9’ with extra nose rocker, a round tail and somewhat pulled in nose. I’m trying to decide the best way to transition the rails … maybe somewhat pinched 50/50 well rounded rails in the first third, then 70/30 with a sharp bottom edge in the center, then all the way down in the back?

Would fully down rails in the tail be overkill? Too much lift? This is only my 3rd board so I’m still learning as I go here. Hope I can get the rails turned right. Ordered a ‘fred’ tool and hoping it will help.

Billy

If by ‘‘overhead’’ you refer to the size surf, what you plan will work fine. The 1/3, 1/3, 1/3, formula is commonly used, as well as many variations of it. Make the board, ride it, and you will surely learn from ALL aspects of the experience. I recently saw one of my old personal boards from 1966, in a private collection, that is VERY much as you describe. My old board was 9’ 3’’ x 22’’ , slightly rounded pin. Go for it.

Yes, it’s going to be a board for those days when my regular longboard just gets me beat up … something more forgiving in steep waves, but not a gun by any means.

So when you cut with the fred tool, do you typically use the edge of the board as the guide, or run it along the bottom of the board? Looks like either could work …

Then you just cut the bottom edge to the rail line at 30 degrees, and then bring the top down to meet it? Looks like that’s how they’re made.

Billy

There is a ton of info in the archives on doing rails, rail bands, etc. Just do a search for shaping rails and/or fred tool. You’ll find all you need.

I prefer harder rails when I want my board to plane high & find speed; when the wave is providing plenty of speed on its own, I like my board to be designed for control.

I have no experience with a Fred Tool, or any banding device. I just match things up side to side by eyeball. Per the above comment, there is an abundance of info in the archives.

The Fred Tool is used both ways. Several passes with the guide on the rail, then several passes with it on the bottom.

Ease up as you get to the back 1/3 of the board if you want to have a sharp down rail. The Fred Tool is very good for rough shaping tucked-under edges. Of course you have to do the fine shaping with screens. I also use long sanding blocks to clean things up. Some guys use sandpaper at the very last. Doug

Quote:

I prefer harder rails when I want my board to plane high & find speed; when the wave is providing plenty of speed on its own, I like my board to be designed for control.

What if you want both? Any good compromise rails that will do it? On some waves certainly want as much control and as much speed as I can get.

regards,

Håvard

I saw a cooperfish made for a big baja swell one time pretty similar to what you described this had a supper pin tail though, the rail were very pinch the whole length starting as 50/50 towards the nose and then gradually turning down the whole length until it reached the tail which had a pretty knifey crisp edge. I rode in knee high was and it was interesting i bet it would work in the conditons you described

Haavard, best of both worlds:

50/50 rails but very pinched - like the pointy end of an egg in a 3/4" radius. Foil out that tail.

And a round pin shape doesn’t hurt, either :slight_smile:

Outline. This is one of those ‘weird’ projects I decided to do … I drive a truck for a window company and they started using these 4" x 6" EPS squares as fillers to secure loads. At the end of trips, I was annoyed by piles of these things. Decided to put 170 of them together and make a blank. Gonna laminate with tie dyed hemp and will have Kevlar tape under the hemp on the rails/nose/tail/fin area for added reinforcement.

Shaping through all of the epoxy joints has been a headache but it will be hilarious when it’s finished.

I just figured … maybe I can be famous for it someday … like that board Takiyama shaped from stolen railroad ties when he was too poor to afford a board … haha …

Billy

haha thats a good use of that stuff

nice two stringer blank

post pics when your making it

Quote:

I have no experience with a Fred Tool, or any banding device. I just match things up side to side by eyeball

Nice. Good to hear that I’m not alone…

I don’t use fred either, I must admit that I cheat by using masking tape on the bottom to transition from hard to soft, and to ensure the tuck is sharp. It also ensures that you are symmetric on both rails. I use the sureform then to come up to the tape and finish with screen & strips of sandpaper

Same here (minus the tape)…

I’ve been around long enough (not as long as Thrailkill though!) to have ridden a bunch of different designs in OH surf. Longboards, shortboards, hull bottoms, concaves, single fins, thrusters, soft rails, hard rails, etc.

You know what?

When it’s OH and peeling, it’s all good. :slight_smile:

I’ll never take this one out in OH surf again though. Weighs 38 lb hurts like hell when you get whacked in the head with it. Also quite a tug on the leash when you fall.

I had it out one day this summer when it was about 7-8 ft and got whacked on the head with it … busted the rail … had to cut new veneer and fix it up … after the headache subsided a day later

Well here’s the first Kevlar rail. I’m a little concerned about blending it into the deck/bottom … might have to do a double layer of the hemp fabric and put up with the extra weight. Can’t be that much. I could cut the first layer to fit perfectly inside the rails, then the second layer full size out to mid rail. Thoughts?

These rails should be pretty strong. I have a fish I made with a kevlar/carbon hybrid fabric and it’s tough as nails. Takes some serious abuse to damage it and it’s just one layer of 6 oz top and bottom, no deck patch etc.

Hi EndlessWinter,

Nice project, I like the recycling aspect. Regarding the kevlar, I have no idea about sanding it. Regarding hemp: tough to sand, and wrapping the rails is interesting as well. If you could let us know how it goes for you that would be great. My advice on doing two layers is that you could vac bag on the 1st layer inside the outline of the kevlar. It will be rough, and you’ll have to sand a little. The advantage is that you could pre wet the hemp cloth 1:1 by weight with epoxy on a wet-out table, spread it on the board, and vac into place. Otherwise, it’s going to take tons more epoxy, and add a lot of weight to do two layers of hemp. I’m assuming you have a vac setup if you were working with veneer on that other board? Just my thoughts.

pat

Past experience with sanding Kevlar is that you cannot. It doesn’t sand – it just frays. I might try to just touch that edge a little bit to take it down, then cut the layers of hemp for the bottom, wet them out, vacuum bag it, then repeat on the deck. The hemp wets out super easy but it can suck up epoxy like a sponge … it’s like you have to let it sit on the board wet for a while, then drag out the excess resin, pushing down hard, then bag it … and yes, just like carbon, need the vacuum to get it around the rails.

Only reason I know is I did a trial run with a toy surfboard of the same materials. Will use it as a stocking stuffer for my 2 year old son this year.