now i am going to bed
but by in large its asian board manufacuters, they spend the bucks on the advertising and pay the surfers on the WCT, IF ANY BODY IS GETTING GREEDY IT WOULD APPEAR that its companys like RUSTY, BUT I DONT KNOW ARE THEY GREEDY OR JUST TRYING TO ADAPT TO A CHANGING MARKET.. i always thought the atheletes themselves had something to do with this, they demand , and recive huge contracts, the reason those huge cotracts can be paid is because of the manufacturing and profit saving of asia, its the same in tennis shoes for NBA players , i mean tiger woods reaps the benifits of a enormous nike cotract because of the profits nike makes by by manufacturing in asia...you dont here tiger woods feeling sorry for small tennis shoe companys that get snuffed by nike, you dont here pro surfers screaming BUY CALIFORNIA MADE boards..may be the atheletes are the ones who are greedy?? any way i surf hand made usa boards , i do my part aloha
Diss a PRO Surfer? Let's back up a bit! Most pro surfers are on tour because they love to surf. And believe me they don't have a very long career. And the money is peanuts compared to other sports. Pro surfers are more soulful then most of you realize. They give up everything to strictly surf for a life style first, living second. To only surf with no side work like waiting tables, construction or working at a pizza joint is not as profitable as you think? You have to be so dedicated.
There are 900 (+/-) surfers on the WQS and with the down turn in the economy these guys are barely getting by. Were as in the past they were getting enough sponsorship money to do the tour while maintaining a decent standard of living. To make the WCT and then get the bigger purse is well deserved in my book!
Kelly Slater makes great money and you might not agree but I believe he's earned every penny of it! OCCY and some of the others all deserve what they have achieved. So saying PRO Surfers are greedy is unfair.
Now the big rag companies drop all the hard working surfers to sponsor groms with 1/4 of the talent and give them 1/10 of the salaries and throw in Tee-shirts and Hats and the groms are fine just to see their photos in the magazines so they can be the cool kid at school. Therefore who is greedy?
You’re comment about large board companies being greedy? I have to disagree as well. OK I'm a custom California Board Builder however for the large board companies to even make the payroll of their staff and cover all their expenses while maintaining production state side has become nearly impossible (TAXES, REGULATIONS, ENVIROMENTAL, WORKMANS COMP, LABOR, BENEFITS & HIGH RENT). Whereas I with a low overhead and in house glassing keep the ability to build a custom board alive and well. I'm fine and not bitter at all with the larger companies and they have never been a treat to my business. I have great respect for Rusty and all the other large board builders that have made successful board brands in the surf industry. Their designs are great, plus they have very good quality control regardless of where they make their boards (California or Asia). I don't blame some of the companies that have chosen to produce overseas.
It's more survival than Greed!
The consumer decides what board to buy and at what cost. When you buy a board off the rack and if it has the shape you feel that will work for you go for it. If you want custom boards built see your shaper.
To start calling everyone Greedy is a bit bold!
Aloha is a loosely used word.
To actually show some would be something else!
SD
Peace! It's all good. Keep writing!
Aloha and good will to all!
SD
Surfding’s points are well taken and he should know…son on tour (not living luxuriously either) and the few making big bucks are the exception to the rule.
As far as pricepoints…depends on what you are buying. I was in our local shop and can state there were clear shorties for $475 to $699. I was kinda blown away at the $699 shortie…yeah, it had a colored rail and a 2nd color next to it, big deal. My reaction was “you gotta be kidding me”. Not a big label either.
Someone mentioned tennis players along with pro surfers. I tell you what, you try keeping the ridiculously heavy schedule pro tennis players have to prescribe to in order to even be in the top 100. These players work super hard, employ fitness trainers, a coach, a manager, and play on courts that heat up to 140 degrees…high level tennis: how do they even do that. Rafa Nadal? Severe tendonitis, both knees…common among top players. May end his career. Maria Sharapova? Shoulder surgery…now non seeded having to play through every qualifier on the planet to regain ranking.
Oh, forget to mention…they have to pay their own fare and support staff airline expense all over the world. Now IF you are Federer or Roddick or one of the VERY top guys, you have your own jet or a leased one. How many top surfers have their own private jet?
But still, by comparison, the 30th placed tennis player in the world, some like Marat Safin has had lifetime earnings of $13 million. Can you say that about the pro surfer ranked #30?
Consumers have to weigh through and decide which surfboard represents the best value for them. Stretch will no longer make a PU/PE board because he believes it represents a poor value for his customer. He has made his own decision in what to offer, and it is up to any nformed consumer to decide if they agree with him.
In the case of the $700 shortboards, maybe a surfer wants two or three cheapies at that price. Maybe as a shaper, someoone will come to me and say “hey Bruce, I just want a shaped blank from you cuz I love your stuff and I have a friend who will glass it for $100”. So I shape the guy a 6’3" and charge him $150 and he is stoked.
What’s wrong with that scenario?
So maybe in order for me to make a living and pay my mortgage I offer diferent options to fit individual budgets. One guy wants me to do epoxy, S glass and carbon fiber, and another guy wants a shaped blank.
Capiche?
P.S.
Ding…the Green foam blank guys might be relocating or wo knows what as I thought they were using Scott’s set up at Just Foam. But Scott PM’d me and said he was relocating offshore because of costs being too high here. That most likely is the reason you haven’t been able to get hold of them? I updated the Announcement on Sways to let people know this…
So without trying to offend everyone here,…
It seems that within the last few months most people have changed thier minds about offshore boards,
In fact the people doing it are now being congratulated ?!
Are people (shapers and board builders) realizing that expecting 700USD for a plain white STOCK shortboard is a bit too much…
In an earlier post I asked if isrlmaui had any idea on why the 700$ “wade” board was better than the copy of it made in china … To no avail… (no ffence intended to WADE, name used for reference only)
If this is the case, If you want to make money, Email me at – MitchFromOZ @ hotmail . com
I can make you any kind of board you like, and if I cant, I know who can.
…
Hey DS, I back at it, +1 advert … lol…
…hello DS, talking about everything…
those possible illness about Tennis, reminds me the other when I watched some surf movies that have couple of wipeouts directly to the reefs…
I think that there are too much people with more luck that “a man can be”
there s people who never hurt themselves in a serious way…but there are unfortunatelly ones that really hurts badly
I know of car, motorcycles, bikes, surfing accidents that are incredible…no one hurted
in other hand, couple of back seasons ago in Indo, a brother of a customer had a very bad accident in mid size Uluwatu and the guy saved his leg from amputation, because he s a rich person; any other now may have one only leg…
15000 Dollars the plane tickets from there to his hospital and there around 3 months + recovery.
Lat year other long time customer (that is not a good surfer) there in Indo, near Nias, in a 3 months trip, had plenty of wipeouts in small hollow shallow reefs; taking off behind the peak, etc
the guy has not back up money…he was in “Gods hands”, but he is in one piece, nothing bad happened.
—regarding Tennis, a guy who lives near my house (that I barely know) is somewhat like 60 or so in the ATP ranking
but he s not precisely super rich.
I GUESS I TOUCHED A NERVE, CONCERNING PRO SURFERS BEING THE GREEDY ONES, OH WELL, BESIIDES I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE WCT, NOT THE WQS..DUDE I TRY TO COMMUICATE ON A MATURE LEVEL, I STATED THIS IS A THOUGHT PROVOVKING THREAD, I THINK OUT SIDE OF THE BOX IM NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT , I GET YOU TO THINK...ONE THING I DONT DO IS ATTACK PESONALLY..FOR THE RECORD YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HARD I WORK AND WHAT MY EXPERIENCE WITH PROFFESIONAL ATHLETICS IS, ITS COMMENTS LIKE YOURS, THAT I WONDER WHY I BOTHER TO PLUG INTO SWAYLOCKS,,,ALOHA BRAH
Isrmaui: It cost a lot to make a board in Hawaii. All the material are imported. There are Hawaiian shapers that are shaping on the Mainland (California) and shipping finish boards to Hawaii. It's less expensive than making them in the Islands. Wade himself does not benifit so much when a Retail Store sells his board. The Store does. My the time Wade gets his cut after Materials, Overhead, Labor, Packaging and Handling he doesn't make that much believe me!
What is happening is that Custom Shortboards are returning to local production. Fun Boards and Longboard including SUPs are being mass produced in Asia because the sizes are more general and easier to hit a broader market. Therefore less risk on ordering a container full of Fun and Longboards than shortboards. SUP's are even easier.
longboard blanks by US blanks are 130-180 dollars on maui, depending on stringers, exact length,etc…gallon of resin is 45.00 dollars, shortboard blanks half that…im not going to break down every material cost in making a board, we have a fiberglass hawaii store on maui, im sure its more than the mainland…guys here can make a good shortboard and turn a profit keeping it below 500.00, even less than that…island shapers will do a longboard for under 800.00 depending on specifics, sometimes less than 600.00…big name island shapers charge a thousand and up for coustom long boards, if you know the guys you can get great deals…you made some good points about the price of WADES, you can get a local shape for half the price of a wade, oh and best of luck to your son, on the WQS…
“regarding Tennis, a guy who lives near my house…like 60 or so in the ATP rankng…but he’s not precisely super rich”.
Cool comment. Good info, so I did a quick search so we can compare to a Pro surfer:
ATP current #60 (Highest ranking ever was #36 in 2005)
Florent Serra (French) Age 28
Year Turned Pro 2000
Current Year’s earnings to date: $318,090 Career Earnings to date: $1,883,382
Total career match record: (wins/losses) 88/112…these are matches not tournaments. Now look at the money. One tournament has many matches against opponents to make to a final and hopefully win.
So to put this in prespective compared to a pro surfer, this guy who very few people know, has been playing professional comptetive tennis for 8 years grossing an average over that period of $236,048 per year. Now we are not stating this as NET EARNINGS. We don’t know what his coach or trainer gets paid, nor if he even has one or both. He averages 14 maches per year, and has a winning record, but is he flying coach class or staying close to home for smaller tournaments that he stands a better chance of winning or placing higher to get a paycheck. Tournaments are not a winner take all deal of course, so the higher up he finishes the bette chance of making a living.
How many sponsors does he have? How much do they help? Do they pay his entries? Travel & lodging expense, training, etc.?
It would be nice to see how his net compares to a pro surfer somewhere in the same life earnings realm. Young American Taylor Dent was a promising singles player that is STILL trying to make his comeback, after 3 back surgeries. WHO paid for those surgeries…doe he have health insurance, and at what price tag?
I have health insurance through the airlines (wife retired flight crew) but the problem is I could fly to India or Thailand and get top notch procedures done for 1/5th to 1/10th the price that most Americans would pay here at home. Some friends of mine say this isn’t true, however, I have to cite her ex-hub (a United pilot) who went to India for a shoulder procedure after researching and finding the best guy in the world was located there. $8K (incl. lodging and phsical therapy) compared to $65,000 here w/o physical therapy and lodging…kind of says it all.
How many pro surfers can afford health insurance? Does delivering pizza come with full coverage?
P.S.
Mitch, I ain’t biting. And no one is commending it, just learning to accept it. Every approach has it’s merits, as you have noted. I’m looking for old style longboard fins like the molded polypro sink in resin ones circa '67…PM me if you have any info or sources.
P.P.S.
Here’s a tennis stat for the women pro surfers to consider:
Serena Williams
Year to date winnings $4,037,966 Career winings: just shy of $26 million.
This is not endorsements…just prize money. How does that compare to top women professionals? When it comes to endorsements, Maria Sharapova was the higest paid women’s athlete up to the time of her injury and 10 month recuperation.
…from a pro sport point of view, for sure Surfing is a not so good paid one…
but from a genuine activity and lifestyle point of view that involves several aspects like riding waves in itself, pro circuit, beachboys, polite people, “hang-arounders”, hippies, hipsters, artisans, craftsmen, etc
and came from underground to movies from mystics to marketing
from smoke joints to pro physical training
etc, I think the final check is ok because unlike the Tennis or other sports, the main surfing aspect is not to compete
there are no joy or pride in Tennis, etc if you leave the circuit
seems the only reason of those only sports.
so, with Surfing if we still keeping the $ temptation fairly right will be not future problems like be part of megacorporations or invaded by outsiders, “parachute guys”, etc
preserving the real thing…one of the latest
As with surfing, there are some really great aspects to what the sport of tennis brngs to the general public. Yesterday I watched the first day of the U.S.Open in New York. This is called “Kid’s Day” and it is in honor of Arthur Ashe, the black tennis player that won the 1st open while still in the Army. He went on to be a great humanitarian and philanthropist for young underprivleged kids before dying from a blood transplant that carried Aids. A great family man and a real loss to mankind.
Andre Agassi and many of the successful tennis players have foundations to help the less fortunate. Roddick, Sharapova, Federer, Nadal and others have foundations that do great things: Nada l has made tennis available to poor children in India, Agassi has spent millions creating and maintaing a school in his home town of Las Vegas. There are many other examples of these players sharing their wealth for the public good…whether they play tennis or not.
There have studies that have concluded that physical activity improves ones ability to perform in school. Surfing can impart values to children from all walks of life. I learned early on that I don’t get a reward unless I learned to navigate the surfbreak and work at catching waves. The simple message that there are rewards for hard work, became very apparent to me from the age of eight. It was a lesson that helped mold my life!!!
The diminshing of physical education in our schools is a tragedy. Budget restraints is most often the culprit, but I believe that is shortsighted, and ultimately a cop out. Quite a bit of the curriculum in our schools isn’t practical for today’s times and is a waste of time. The system is out dated compared to other superior forms of education on the globe. The U.S. is falling behind due to this, and hopefully we can change the current approach and content of education.
I personally loved the “Expression Sessions” of yesteryear. Although competitive by nature, the whole idea was to go out with your peers and attempt to advance the sport by pulling leading edge manuvers. It was a hybrid of competitve and free surfing…curiously enough, I surfed contests back in the day, and although i was frequently in the finals, I found myself feeling unfulfilled. had reached triple A status and competed in the first AAAA rated contest which was held at Steamer Lane in Santa Cruz. This was the model for Pro/Am contests and some of the est surfers in the world competed. The surf was big and the contest was well attended. That was 1970 or '71?
My surfing style was to make things look easier ather than harder. More the classic Santa Barbara style that suited Rincon and The Ranch then fast beachbreaks or sloppy shorepound. There were times when I absolutely just blew the competition away by a huge point spread- but it was always because I finally got in a contest final that had good waves, and I just abandoned the scoring strategy and went free surfing!
That kind of says what’s important to me, I guess…I don’t think the pros can quite do that nowadays? Meaning free surf…probably have to strategize to the max?