So I’ve been seeing more and more talk about asymmetrical surfboards, highlighted by the sacred craft convention this past weekend. I was wondering, what exactly are benefits of an asymmetrical board? Does it really make that much of a difference in how it surfs frontside vs backside, compared to a well shaped symmetrical board with good fins? Or is some of it hype?
Part hype/gimmick, I don’t totally get it but then again I don’t have a killer point to surf one in, just some crappy beach break. I do surf better though on my back hand with a quad, fronside I like a thruster. Makes you wonder though about spending all that time to get your boards perfectly glassed and shaped symmetrically.
I think the idea has more to do with our assymetrical stances rather than assymetrical waves.
This may be a bit of a tangent but I thought it relates somewhat. Has anyone ridden a board that has a twist in the board? In other words, maybe it was left in the sun leaning at a weird angle or something. I rode a nice longboard a little while back that had an obvious twist to it when looking down the deck. One side of the nose was about two inches higher than the other side and it tapered down as you looked towards the tail. It surfed really well - very smooth turns and no problem with speed or anything funky.
Just curious.
bc11,
I think the main portion of the board making the most contact is usually the back third or less depending, of course, on where the rider stands and steepness of the wave. The symmetry is desirable to take one less variable out of the equation to allow the rider to perform bettter based on a constant, but a warped board will certainly still float and plane.
asymms look cool, and I think there is merit in the different fin setup based on stance, but it is gimmick for the most part.
You could say that for most model variations. The most important constant is the rider. The rest is a way to sell more boards.
Carl Ekstrom has been shaping Asymmetrical boards for years. I rode one of his in the mid 70's I'm sure someone here could push the earliest date of the design back 10 years more then that. The day I rode The Asym was on one of those swells where Swamis will show a left every once in a while. Going backside was a joy on that board.
Carl has put a lot of thought and effort into his concepts on Board design. So no it is not hype. Why were there so many Asymmetrical Boards at the scared Craft is because The show was honoring Carl Ekstrom. Others brought out their version of a board design that Carl is known for.
Hype would be giving some over amped 16 year old boy wonder surfer a pile of cash to ride one. The concept is simple you surf different going backside. So shorten the backside rail line and use a different fin set to allow a a backside surfer to drive the board like they would going front side.
Johnny 3 , Asymmetrical work very well in beach break conditions. Think about multiply fast direction changes that are required for most beach break conditions.
I don't have an asym, and have never ridden one. I would welcome an open discussion of the benefits / theories of asymetrical shapes, but "hype" seems to me a dismissive term used in this case to trivialize what is not understood. I wouldn't categorize asyms as a gimmick to sell more boards. After all, how many asyms do you see on most retail racks? How many flying out the door? Come on. To me it seems to be another theory to maximize the surfing experience - in this case, based on the way we stand / ride making the dynamics different frontside vs backside.
In 1962 Carl was aware of this type of board design being built in Australia. I know this because we had discussions about the concept at that time. In 1963 I saw one being ridden on the North Shore. A Surfboards Australia. By early 1964 Carl began to build the design. At the begining calling it a Hook Tail. Later adopting the term Asymmetrical, after hearing me use the term to describe dissimilar outlines, on the same board.
Bill, is there a topic in surfing design history that you don’t remember? I can’t remember what I did last week let alone a surfing conversation I may have had as a youngster in the 70’s or so. The context that gets added to the conversation is astounding. Thanks for the willingness to share it.
I have never ridden an asym, let alone even seen one at my local breaks. That’s why I posted the topic, in the hopes of getting feedback about these boards. There must be a reason why there aren’t any on retail racks, one being that I assume you need to have a good understanding of how exactly they work in order to shape one…which I didn’t quite understand until reading a few of the replies.
Plus I would assume that each asym needs to be specifically shaped and tuned to the rider, which means no “stock model” and hence no mass production?
Huck,
What I said was that if you boil it down, all model varations all are way to sell more boards, but I guess I was going a bit off subject. I was thinking more along the lines of the endless b.s. put out by some companies known for all their pro model boards. Take a nose from this model and the tail from this model and make a new model that you must have if you want to do airs. Take the same thing and chop this off to do this and surf like this guy. . .
The asyms are definetly more different, and in my book, if you aren’t trying to push this thing forward, then your standing still. I respect them for that. However I do feel like the same effect could be achieved by simply changing the fin positions in relation to the rail, or fin type on a board the rider already surfs well on. Which has been discussed a bit already…
I shouldn’t be so quick to dismiss however.
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... the same effect could be achieved by simply changing the fin positions in relation to the rail...
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BINGO !
Thanks for clearing that up a little guys. I did mention the whole surfing different backside/frontside thing. I could see the advantage of having the different tails and fin setups. It’s a valid design, it’s just that you don’t see many and when you do it’s like a freak show thing, so it can come off as gimmicky because for most it just looks wierd as hell.
**I went down to the shape off to learn more about asymmetric boards because I didn’t know a lot about Carl Ekstrom. Turned out that a lot of other’s were pretty tuned in to him, as he seems like a real thinker. **
**I’d seen Chuck Vinson’s asymmetric tail’d boards for a long time, he’s a believer, also a fin designer and theorist. What really made a lot of sense to me was that the sailboard guys got into it long ago, having the speed and ability to turn and see what was going on back there, under way. I had to keep an open mind at the show with so much in one place. It felt like sensory overload, but got really into it after two days of viewing. **
I made one in 1970. Single fin…6’8" round pin on one side and square tail on the other. I was mainly riding it at Cardiff Reef,Stonesteps etc. I took it to Hawaii and rode it a lot at Diamond Head.Always thought that they were a great idea. I still do.
You have the perfect reason for trying an asymmetrical board…Grab your quad and take off a fin on your frontside inside rail…Voila! Asymmetry doesn’t mean you have to screw with the actual shape of the board.
All my boards are asymmetrical. Especially the rails…
Like most things when it comes to board design there is a lot of subjective input and little in real science behind any design. Swallow Tails, Bat Tails , Fish , Quad Fish Channels, forward V, V behind the fin, round rails down rails, box rail it is all pretty much subjective. It all works ,that's the beauty of it and the bitch of it . It about the right combination to get the results you desire. There are those that think Carl is an unheralded genius ( don't tell Jim the Genius ) Personally i would very much like to get on one of Carl's boards again. Like I said it was back in 70's that I borrowed one for a session at Swamis. He has been working on this concept for about 50 years maybe he has the bugs worked out. Asymmetrical aside Carl, just makes a very very clean board everything just blends and flows together.
If you want hype just look at the thread on Kelly winning on a quad!
I have a twin fin fish I made back in 2007.
Frontside it goes so incredibly fast down the line it’s absolutely awesome and is one of the best boards I have ridden.
Backside it is a pig and tracks in a straight line so bad you can’t do a botom turn at all.
The shape outiline is kinda inspired by Ben Aipa’s stinger fish tails of the 70s but I have the fins set in front of the stinger
it has a significant amount of singlwhe concave in the middle third that breaks into a huge V in the tail where the stingers are in the rails.
The fins are set with minimal toe in just behind the stinger and I believe that the positioning of them (just behind the stingers) in relation to the end of the concave guides the energy flow through to the tail V giving it a huge amount of directional thrust and release off the tail.
A friend suggested adding more cant and toe in on the back side fin to overcome the backside tracking issues (ie assymetrical fin placement).
Seeing Assym fin setups on boards made by Eckstrom and Burch etc there could be some merit in this idea.
Personaly though I have a feeling it is more than just fin placement though. On my backhand I ride a lot heavier on my front foot and I think all that concave in the middle of the board it is acting like a twin hull boat preventing me from getting it up on a rail.
From what I have read about Ryan Burch’s assyms is that not only the planshape that varies from one side to the other but bottom contour and rocker with more rocker and more bottom roll on the backside than the front side.
I am thinking that frontside you could have a straighter more fish like rail outline and half a double concave
On the backside you could have a more curved rail line with less (ie no) concave so that it transitions more easily onto the backside rail.
There are no rules only ideas
S
I’ve had a chance to ride a Plus One assym. This was the design with the longer tail on the frontside and the shorter winged tail on the backside, and I liked it quite a bit. Rode it in solid 8’ + faces and had a great time. The frontside allowed for longer driving bottom turns and then I could make nice hard top turns and cutbacks. The board was a bit bigger than my short boards and the tail was a bit wider than I was used to, so it took about 3 waves to find the sweet spot, but once I found it, it was a lot of fun.
The board has a different rail line in the tail and different bottom contour on each side. The fins are offset with 2 on one side and one on the other side.
