When twins came out, the rail fins used to be a little closer into your back foot? I know, also straight up and without toe or cant…so bear that in mind too…
What made rail fins end up 1 - 1.5 inches from the rail edge?
Say you have a 22 – 22.5" wide retro fish with a 17 - 17.5" tail (1’ from tail) and a 12" final width (or 13") --what would the effect be of positioning my keels 2 - 2.5 inches from the rail edge instead of 1?
I would think I’d get a quicker turn-in (with a little vee, of course) by bringing the fin closer to my toes and heel, but what’s the reality of that on a wide-tailed fish?
My take on fin positioning is that closer to the rail gives more hold. Moving them towards the stringer gets more fin out of the water when on a rail. Maybe moving them closer to the tail might lessen that effect.
I saw a nice fish of yours in the water at SS, and that kid said he LOVES it on GulfSurfer.com-- make me think I could go thinner than I am – his friend is well, pretty fat and he was getting waves on it at SS
Wouldn’t my fin still be in the water at 2" vs. 1 - 1.5" from the rail unless you were pulling some serious G’s on a bottom turn on some really fast hollow wave? Which we don’t have…? I was really thinking getting that fin closer to my foot would be a good thing on wide board – I’ll just try the standard position and see how i goes –
Still, that’s probably the thing
I just always wondered too if there were an advantage to blocking the rail release behind fins, in terms of cutting down on tracking…
I have inclosed some pictures of the type of board I was making in 1978/79 while living in Ecuador. All we had to do was surf and shape HOLLOW balsa boards, tough life. This board was one of the best. moved the fins together so they fit under your feet. Heel toe, heel toe, FAST reactions rail to rail, NO TRACKING. The board is 6’6" x 20 1/2 x 15 1/4 nose x 15 1/2 tail 11 1/2’’ at the split.
Mine’s gonna be a 5’10" quad that I just drew some nice fins for. Now looking at the template and fin temps to figure out position–keeping you guys’ advice in mind
With the advent of fairly lightweight removable fin systems (FCS, Future, LokBox,etc.) it would be interesting to place a set of plugs at standard placements along with non standard placements, and see how much of a difference it would make. ACE’s balsa fish, a beautiful board by the way, has a very interesting fin set up. It’s rather amazing that I have’nt seen to much discussed on this topic before. Something I may have to look into in the future. Thanks for bringing it up.
I don’t think I’m necessarily correct, but that seems counter intuitive to me. If you put your board on a rail and the outer fin can’t leave the water because it’s closer to the stringer, wouldn’t that increase your tendency to track? And Janklow, thanks for the kind words, and I still feel like having your fins near the rail is the most beneficial place, mainly for what I said above.
Don’t forget, the inside fin is closer to the stringer too. I never understood the desire to get a fin out of the water. The fin is the source of directional control. Control in surfing is everything! Don’t you think? The technical answer to your counter intuitive concern is rather lengthy, at least longer than I care to type. PM your phone number to me and I’ll call you and explain in detail, if you wish me to.
Hi Bill, with a narrower tail the fins can be closer to the rail AND closer to the centreline as well, at least that’s the theory behind my latest pintailed fish ‘folly’ !
Yeah–here in Gulf Coast land, I’ve heard a couple of different oldsters say that fish “track.” Wide tails and wide-set big area keels and all.
Which, if they were riding 17" tail boards with big no-toe keels and a dogmatic 1" offrail positioning, shaped by guys who don’t understand foot leverage positioning vs. fin area, they would track.
I’ll keep that in mind for the wide tails–gracias again Bill Thrailkill
Thank you for the numerous PM’s with phone numbers. It’s going to be less time consuming to answer your questions this way than a series of phone calls. Hope you understand. So, imagine a board with a single fin, center mounted, that is 3/4’’ thick and hydronamically foiled. Surf the board, and it will feel both positive and somewhat loose in its’ response to the rider. The board will also carry speed well through its’ turns. Now imagine the same fin cut in half down its’ centerline, producing two asymmetrical fins 3/8’’ thick. Next move each fin 1’’ off center, and surf the board. Surprisingly there will be very little difference in the ride, compared to the thick single fin. Now continue to move each fin in incriments toward each rail. What you will experience is that as the fins move farther apart, the turning response will stiffen, requireing more effort to produce a given maneuver. The farther apart the fins get, the worse the condition becomes. I have just described an experimental path that I have traveled, and have reported my experience and observations. I would invite any doubting reader to do the same experiment and reach a different conclusion, or prove me wrong. I hope this makes my statements about fin position a little more clear, and note that it is based on direct experience, and not theory.
the short fish was/is a kneeboard .It is much ,much easier to do a very hard turn with the low center of gravity and superior leverage. As a standup board you need to add toe in and V and pull in the tail…near impossible to get the same performance on a short fish standing though.