First let me send my heart felt condolences to those who lost loved ones in the senseless attack on Bali. Aussies, I’ve searched a couple of websites, and I can’t find the Australian government’s position on joining with the U.S. and Brittain for a preemptive strike on Iraq. … just wondering if the guilty parties are as transparent as we are being told, or if this crime against innocent civilians can be solved by motive. The blasts happened directly after the attack on the French oil tanker in the Gulf of Aden. Can there be a connection? This is the first time since the blast that I can even act rationally about it.
First let me send my heart felt condolences to those who lost loved ones > in the senseless attack on Bali.>>> Aussies, I’ve searched a couple of websites, and I can’t find the > Australian government’s position on joining with the U.S. and Brittain for > a preemptive strike on Iraq.>>> … just wondering if the guilty parties are as transparent as we are > being told, or if this crime against innocent civilians can be solved by > motive. The blasts happened directly after the attack on the French oil > tanker in the Gulf of Aden. Can there be a connection?>>> This is the first time since the blast that I can even act rationally > about it. oil tanker??? Excellent to be looking at a more open scenario than our illustrious president might have us believe. And yet, please don’t think I mean that that unbelievable carnage could not, in my estimation, be the responsibility of those whom might have even some affiliation with those who did what they did to Danny Pearl. God is it just me . … or is the world so brutally vicious right now, worse than ever? To read what that one guy here said, about the first small blast is to get people out towards the area where they are going to do the larger blast . . … it makes me sick. Anyway sorry. Who attacked the French oil tanker . … say what could be a possible other scenario . …even though you are not touting that I can see. I just am not completely up on what has been going on, so would appreciate anymore, and even a hypothetical possibility. But it is noted here that you are not suggesting some conspiracy like for instance KPFK always comes up with alternative monsters to what is the obvious. Which leads one to believe that there are way way way too many “conspiracies” taking place.
hopefully the oz government wont join the USA in another war. if we keep out of other peoples business, the less we have to suffer the responses by the local people of those countries who have had their families killed by uncle sams bombs. the more you fight them the harder they will come back. the only way to stop the east will be to wipe thier countries off the face of the earth with nukes, which is bound to happen anyway at some stage, then its good bye to this world for us all.
After the Gulf War, Saddam sued for peace. The UN and Saddam negotiated terms under which Saddam Hussein could remain in power. Since then Saddam did two things: 1)Refused to abide by his UN’s agreement, and 2)Forged an illegal trading partnership with France, a member of the UN Security Council. France is shipping weapons to Iraq in exchange for Iraqi black-market oil. Combine France’s Iraqi oil addiction with France’s Security Council veto power, and you must conclude that the UN will never agree to enforce its agreements with Iraq. Maybe you can’t see this quandary, but I think Israel did. What Al Qaeda cell would have blown up a French oil tanker in the Gulf of Aden? Israel is a nuclear power, but hasn’t threatened the nations which have threatened Israel. Saddam had better hope that Western nations get to Iraq before Israel does. Israel can’t afford the losses it would incur in a conventional attack against Iraq. If we leave the job to Israel, Iraq will be destroyed in a few flashes of light. And Israel knows that time is running out… When Iraq wanted to ward off the U.S., Saddam attacked Israel. When Iraq needed to ward off Israel, what happened? Bali bombs blew up a bunch of Ozzies, and around Washington D.C. Americans started dropping like flies. How much of this is coincidence, and how much is connected? I’m not sure. Part of it depends on Australia’s stand on attacking Iraq.
Go here. http://www.chattownusa.com/Chat/Politics/>>> After the Gulf War, Saddam sued for peace. The UN and Saddam negotiated > terms under which Saddam Hussein could remain in power. Since then Saddam > did two things:>>> 1)Refused to abide by his UN’s agreement, and>>> 2)Forged an illegal trading partnership with France, a member of the UN > Security Council.>>> France is shipping weapons to Iraq in exchange for Iraqi black-market oil. > Combine France’s Iraqi oil addiction with France’s Security Council veto > power, and you must conclude that the UN will never agree to enforce its > agreements with Iraq. Maybe you can’t see this quandary, but I think > Israel did. What Al Qaeda cell would have blown up a French oil tanker in > the Gulf of Aden?>>> Israel is a nuclear power, but hasn’t threatened the nations which have > threatened Israel. Saddam had better hope that Western nations get to Iraq > before Israel does. Israel can’t afford the losses it would incur in a > conventional attack against Iraq. If we leave the job to Israel, Iraq will > be destroyed in a few flashes of light. And Israel knows that time is > running out…>>> When Iraq wanted to ward off the U.S., Saddam attacked Israel. When Iraq > needed to ward off Israel, what happened? Bali bombs blew up a bunch of > Ozzies, and around Washington D.C. Americans started dropping like flies.>>> How much of this is coincidence, and how much is connected? I’m not sure. > Part of it depends on Australia’s stand on attacking Iraq.
if france were to exercise their veto vote in that fashion, they will have single-handedly removed any remaining credibility for the security council. wonder how they’d like to be remembered for that? i’d better get in my request to relocate the bahamas now, before it’s too late! unless there’s a ‘swell window’ council i don’t know about at the u.n.>>> France is shipping weapons to Iraq in exchange for Iraqi black-market oil. > Combine France’s Iraqi oil addiction with France’s Security Council veto > power, and you must conclude that the UN will never agree to enforce its > agreements with Iraq.
Get out of your Vietnam era mindset, and switch off the pacifica network. Where not the bad guys here. You say “the more you fight them the harder they will come back.” Sorry, but that’s BS. If you dont fight them, then their behaviour has been validated. They will bomb us to the negotiating table? These thugs only understand force, and that extreme Moslem fundamentalism is a total dealth cult. Lets call a spade a spade. A crime ignored is a crime encouraged. Who today remembers the extermination of 1,000,000 Armenians between 1914-1916? It was ignored and Turkey is wealthier and stronger than ever.
After the Gulf War, Saddam sued for peace. The UN and Saddam negotiated > terms under which Saddam Hussein could remain in power. Since then Saddam > did two things:>>> 1)Refused to abide by his UN’s agreement, and>>> 2)Forged an illegal trading partnership with France, a member of the UN > Security Council.>>> France is shipping weapons to Iraq in exchange for Iraqi black-market oil. > Combine France’s Iraqi oil addiction with France’s Security Council veto > power, and you must conclude that the UN will never agree to enforce its > agreements with Iraq. Maybe you can’t see this quandary, but I think > Israel did. What Al Qaeda cell would have blown up a French oil tanker in > the Gulf of Aden?>>> Israel is a nuclear power, but hasn’t threatened the nations which have > threatened Israel. Saddam had better hope that Western nations get to Iraq > before Israel does. Israel can’t afford the losses it would incur in a > conventional attack against Iraq. If we leave the job to Israel, Iraq will > be destroyed in a few flashes of light. And Israel knows that time is > running out…>>> When Iraq wanted to ward off the U.S., Saddam attacked Israel. When Iraq > needed to ward off Israel, what happened? Bali bombs blew up a bunch of > Ozzies, and around Washington D.C. Americans started dropping like flies.>>> How much of this is coincidence, and how much is connected? I’m not sure. > Part of it depends on Australia’s stand on attacking Iraq. Wow . . . . but god I’m slow . . . from the Maybe I can’t see the quandary - sorry but now I have to get it because I can tell you’re not trying to shove an opinion down my throat. Thanks. So if you don’t mind . … forgive the lack of connection. I got that France thinks they need the oil from Iraq. And when you said what Al Queda cell would have wanted to blow up French oil tanker, you’re asking facetiously??? Because I would assume Al Queda and Iraq might be somewhat affiliated if not completely - and I would assume if Iraq is selling oil to France, they are not going to blow it up. So you’re saying then that Israel blew it up??? And then I don’t understand what you mean about “when Iraq wanted to ward off the U.S., Saddam attacked Israel”? I think I read about a few years back he launched some particularly duddy bombs there, but still destructive but . . . well that’s not relative . . . exactly. Nother subject though when it comes to - does he have nukes. I want to get what you’re saying. Really not trying to be stupid, just don’t have a TV, don’t get the paper - not illiterate but been concentrating on other things. So just one more time if you don’t mind. I’d appreciate it. Am not skeptical about anything you said, just don’t get the exact roads between.
Go here. http://www.chattownusa.com/Chat/Politics/ obviously I could use some reading up . … course I’ve always liked reading what Noodle says . … so
Get out of your Vietnam era mindset, and switch off the pacifica network. > Where not the bad guys here.>>> You say “the more you fight them the harder they will come > back.” Sorry, but that’s BS. If you dont fight them, then their > behaviour has been validated. They will bomb us to the negotiating table? > These thugs only understand force, and that extreme Moslem fundamentalism > is a total dealth cult. Lets call a spade a spade.>>> A crime ignored is a crime encouraged. Who today remembers the > extermination of 1,000,000 Armenians between 1914-1916? It was ignored and > Turkey is wealthier and stronger than ever. jump to conclusions about what anyone says when they realistically refer to the total destruction of nukes. Am not disagreeing with either of you, I just think it was an acknowledgement of the total chaos to the innocent, that most warring accomplishes. I mean it is all . … the thing that still gets me . … and even this of course can be considered “not a solution”, because I’m a woman yeah - sorry - but the thing that still gets me, is with all that we have, and the smart bombs and all, and the amazingly skilled men - it is amazing we have not been able to assasinate that man who drives over women. Speaking of women. I mean even if it is true Saddam has a thousand miles of tunnels or whatever that he moves from day to day - there’s no way that we could not have bribed one of his followers to give him up. I mean some of his army has come over here, there’s plenty of data to suggest he has been brutal within his own …and yes I realize there is always another to replace the bad one we thought we got - and maybe the people and the rest of the moslem world wouldn’t have liked that … but I’m thinking . … there’s not going to be a whole lot of people - even within the Moslem world who can see that probably negotiating is a whole lot better than bombing - who would have missed the guy???
anyway, sorry to steer away from surfing. i’m depresed that for the past week, the norteast has been getting great all time surf, and it sucks so bad in LA lately.
After the Gulf War, Saddam sued for peace. The UN and Saddam negotiated > terms under which Saddam Hussein could remain in power. Since then Saddam > did two things:>>> 1)Refused to abide by his UN’s agreement, and>>> 2)Forged an illegal trading partnership with France, a member of the UN > Security Council.>>> France is shipping weapons to Iraq in exchange for Iraqi black-market oil. > Combine France’s Iraqi oil addiction with France’s Security Council veto > power, and you must conclude that the UN will never agree to enforce its > agreements with Iraq. Maybe you can’t see this quandary, but I think > Israel did. What Al Qaeda cell would have blown up a French oil tanker in > the Gulf of Aden?>>> Israel is a nuclear power, but hasn’t threatened the nations which have > threatened Israel. Saddam had better hope that Western nations get to Iraq > before Israel does. Israel can’t afford the losses it would incur in a > conventional attack against Iraq. If we leave the job to Israel, Iraq will > be destroyed in a few flashes of light. And Israel knows that time is > running out…>>> When Iraq wanted to ward off the U.S., Saddam attacked Israel. When Iraq > needed to ward off Israel, what happened? Bali bombs blew up a bunch of > Ozzies, and around Washington D.C. Americans started dropping like flies.>>> How much of this is coincidence, and how much is connected? I’m not sure. > Part of it depends on Australia’s stand on attacking Iraq. What kind of weapons did the French sell to Iraq?
Aussies, I’ve searched a couple of websites, and I can’t find the > Australian government’s position on joining with the U.S. and Brittain for > a preemptive strike on Iraq. The Australian Prime Minister John Howard has been agreeing with everything Bush jnr says on Iraq, even the loopier statements. This was causing a bit of concern in Australia. while most people supported the action against Al queda and the Taliban,the majority of Australians do not support a premptive strive against Iraq. Many people here believe Howard’s unqualified support for the US contributed to Australians being targeted in Bali. While the media and some governments have been quick to point the finger at Al Queda - the real culprits are likely to be elements within the Indonesian military (TNI) using Indonesian muslim extremist nutcases and or Al Queda people to do the dirty work. TNI have been fermenting unrest in all parts of Indonesia to establish a pretext for the resumption of military rule. TNI blame Australia for the loss of East Timor, so killing a large number of innocent Australians means nothing to them. They are probably hoping the unchecked presence of Al Queda and terrorist activity will lead to the US to sponsering a take over by the military in order to prevent Indo being used as a base for terrorism - something the present elected government has been unable to prevent.
The Australian Prime Minister John Howard has been agreeing with > everything Bush jnr says on Iraq, even the loopier statements. This was > causing a bit of concern in Australia. while most people supported the > action against Al queda and the Taliban,the majority of Australians do not > support a premptive strive against Iraq. Many people here believe Howard’s > unqualified support for the US contributed to Australians being targeted > in Bali.>>> While the media and some governments have been quick to point the finger > at Al Queda - the real culprits are likely to be elements within the > Indonesian military (TNI) using Indonesian muslim extremist nutcases and > or Al Queda people to do the dirty work. TNI have been fermenting unrest > in all parts of Indonesia to establish a pretext for the resumption of > military rule. TNI blame Australia for the loss of East Timor, so killing > a large number of innocent Australians means nothing to them. They are > probably hoping the unchecked presence of Al Queda and terrorist activity > will lead to the US to sponsering a take over by the military in order to > prevent Indo being used as a base for terrorism - something the present > elected government has been unable to prevent. Noodle . …so interested in what you said earlier, so add in this …and now possibly even more confused. But just to clarify cause I didn’t understand quite, who was the possibility that you said was responsible for Bali???
What kind of weapons did the French sell to Iraq? Pretend that I conceded that Iraq is trading oil to France only for cash. That’s illegal under the terms which Saddam himself brokered with the UN. So Saddam is selling black market oil for cash, then illegally buying French and other war machines with his profits. Either way: 1)Saddam is illegally selling oil 2)France is illegally buying Iraqi oil 3)Saddam is buying France’s UN veto power These are still my points, and they still mean that the UN will never enforce its agreement with Saddam.
Stephen, Thanks for filling me in. When Indonesian Muslims were killing East Timor natives George W’s side (conservative) of the American spectrum had to drag Bill Clinton kicking and screaming into joining Australia in pressuring Indonesia to stop the blood bath. Now some Australian is trying to tell us that Bush wants to form a military dictatorship in Indonesia, and that the proponents of the dictatorship, somehow aligned with Bush, set off these bombs? …to scare other people. Sorry, that dog don’t hunt. George W. Bush is a staunch believer in democratic republics. Why did Jimmy Carter get the Nobel peace prize? He left hundreds of U.S. hostages in the middle east, and by avoiding any agreements which had a personal political price, left the world in the situation which we now find ourselves. Conversely, when Yasser Arafat screamed that the Palestinians wanted the occupied territories back, Bush worked with Israel, and offered to give the occupied territories to the Palestinians… if Arafat would agree to form a democracy there. Arafat refused, choosing to risk the lives of several thousand more Palestinians rather than risk his own power. Bush hoped that responsible members of the international community would put pressure on Arafat, a hope which assumed the character of their leaders would overcome their desire to protect their own power. We can see how far that went. When Bush set up the post-war Afghan government, did he make it a military dictatorship? Nope, a democratic republic. The Bali bombs were designed to kill the maximum number of people in very large booms. Such an attack is designed to draw attention to the bombers, not to scare other people. Muslim terrorists kill lots of people with big plastique bombs which they buy through middle east armies. The point is to get bigger and stronger by looking bigger and stronger than they really are. On the surface, the Gulf of Aden tanker attack mimics Al Qaeda’s attack on the American warship Cole, but with one giant difference. Unlike the Cole attack, the Gulf of Aden tanker bomb targeted the ship, with little collateral human damage. The same principle would apply to the Bali Bombs. The bombs targeted lots of people… Muslim extremists. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck… it’s usually a duck.
Stephen,>>> Thanks for filling me in.>>> When Indonesian Muslims were killing East Timor natives George W’s side > (conservative) of the American spectrum had to drag Bill Clinton kicking > and screaming into joining Australia in pressuring Indonesia to stop the > blood bath.>>> Now some Australian is trying to tell us that Bush wants to form a > military dictatorship in Indonesia, and that the proponents of the > dictatorship, somehow aligned with Bush, set off these bombs? …to scare > other people. Sorry, that dog don’t hunt. George W. Bush is a staunch > believer in democratic republics.>>> Why did Jimmy Carter get the Nobel peace prize? He left hundreds of U.S. > hostages in the middle east, and by avoiding any agreements which had a > personal political price, left the world in the situation which we now > find ourselves. Conversely, when Yasser Arafat screamed that the > Palestinians wanted the occupied territories back, Bush worked with > Israel, and offered to give the occupied territories to the > Palestinians… if Arafat would agree to form a democracy there. Arafat > refused, choosing to risk the lives of several thousand more Palestinians > rather than risk his own power. Bush hoped that responsible members of the > international community would put pressure on Arafat, a hope which assumed > the character of their leaders would overcome their desire to protect > their own power. We can see how far that went. When Bush set up the > post-war Afghan government, did he make it a military dictatorship? Nope, > a democratic republic.>>> The Bali bombs were designed to kill the maximum number of people in very > large booms. Such an attack is designed to draw attention to the bombers, > not to scare other people.>>> Muslim terrorists kill lots of people with big plastique bombs which they > buy through middle east armies. The point is to get bigger and stronger by > looking bigger and stronger than they really are. On the surface, the Gulf > of Aden tanker attack mimics Al Qaeda’s attack on the American warship > Cole, but with one giant difference. Unlike the Cole attack, the Gulf of > Aden tanker bomb targeted the ship, with little collateral human damage.>>> The same principle would apply to the Bali Bombs. The bombs targeted lots > of people… Muslim extremists.>>> If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck… it’s usually a duck. Not quite what I meant Noodle, East timor is catholic the people responsible for the slaughter there were militia’s comprised of local people formed with the help of the Indonesian military (TNI). TNI were partly behind the formation of the extremist muslim militia’s who have been killing christians in Ambon. So TNI has stirred up muslim extremists but not in East Timor as you state. I didn’t mean Bush planned to set up a military gov in Indo, I’m speculating on TNI’s motives for the bombing - perhaps TNI thinks the US will sponser a military gov in Indo if the present one can’t tackle Al queda there. Remember the US (and Australia)supported the previous Suharto military gov and the US has supported other non-democratic governments in the past. Again - who was resposible? IT was a team effort from a bunch of evil power greedy soldiers and a bunch brain washed religious fanatics.
so frigging coy . … I mean come on - just say it - you’ve got loop de loop de loop and you jumped up Stephens totally objective response into him saying something about the army of obviously someone you think is a real winner, um uh BUSH??? Shshshshshshssh####@@@@*****t I never thought I’d hear a surfer talk about Bush like that!!! But okay . … you haven’t lost me yet. Even if you wanted. So you think I’m a moron, because you haven’t answered my question 2 posts ago. I ain’t putting you on the spot because I want to argue, so please don’t be defensive and coy with your answer. I ACTUALLY DON’T UNDERSTAND!!! Fu ____ I haven’t wanted or had the chance to read all these little stories about Al Queda versus extremist Muslims and the Cole versus this latest ship, but that is exactly why, if you’re going to mention so many particulars . . .then BE PARTICULAR with your synopsis please. The duck quacking just doesn’t cut it in clarity, I’m sorry. So what if it is Sociology 101, a few brief clear sentences a while back would have been easy. Just say who you might be hypothetically thinking did what to whom, I ain’t going to judge anyone politically and obviously no one would care about my judgement. Don’t be mad, I’d like to hear what you are saying, even if Bush isn’t my favorite prez. I learned a long time ago, when I saw my inlaws practically kill each other every Turkey day over politics, that . . … ho hum . … no it is not boring … but it sure isn’t something to argue over. People often go with the politics of their parents, often they don’t. It doesn’t matter. The powers that be (for the moment that they be) are usually eventually going to be knocked off their podium by someone else. And by the time most people get into power, they’re going to have created a good list of enemies somewhere down the line. This is a lot more offensive than that nothing sentence I just said, just because killing has seemed to me to be a whole lot more technical (in the sense that it is certainly not an eye for an eye, but more like Terminator with a machine against a thousand)but at the same time, a whole lot more vicious. It really bothers me. I WOULD like to know who you’re thinking about, I just don’t understand the twists.
To be honest, this war talk scares the shit out of me. We have the Middle East/Gulf situation, foreign and domestic terrorists among us, the China spy plane thing awhile back, North Korea with possible nuclear capabilities supposedly aided by Pakistan, China and Russia. The Phillipines and Indonesia are rocking with alleged Al Qaida activity. That’s not to mention deteriorating relationships south of the border. In a flash, we could end up with more than enough on our plate. I keep trying to convince myself that WWIII hasn’t started.
I think you can tell alot about any people by looking at their actions. When a disaster happens, or a famine, or any other event in which people are in need, who is it that comes to their aid. Seem to me to be the free countries of this world. Hell, we even rebuild our enemies cities after we bomb the shit out of them! You have to ask yourself: Who surfs! I’m for them.