Barnfield Asks... Are Clark Blank Specs Private or Public Property

They’ve burned her at the stake, claiming she was a witch but she used a blade as a cheviard of her people and later cooler heads prevailed and they realized she is a saint. The Messiah was to bring Davidic kingdom in a Davidic style, but reality had him follow the path of the forefathers Abraham and Moses. But the Founder . . . had a way to tell. Judge by fruits and you will know. He then gave one of the secrets to life handling. Trust the Father.

So where does this bring? Who can be the judge. I just leave it to the order of the universe that sings out ‘Glory to that who has made me’ perhaps it can be done just ok. Valid points going across . . . people going even using their tongs to move other people’s steak when those people have perfectly good sets of tongs hanging on their aprons . . .

Ok off the rambling and metaphorical, anime video game Halo 3 is going to be out, Pepsi advertising, magic refridgerator always filled with Bud, Predator guy on Steelers D, I’m standing on the Fense.

Now I’m jumping off it to surfing sand beach and small waves.

Then JM brings it back to surfing. And there’s a GM and GL . . . ok now you got my interest!!! small wave surfing . . . something about design and style. GL knows it. And then GM does boards with modern characterstics. and modern shortboard is not the design for the average surfer.

Pics? Ok I got GL as Greg Loehr, but GM . . . who’s that? Hey I want to see more on this . . .

Sorry for the hi jack but doesn’t small wave boards, short, just little rocker, thick rails . . . and fins designed for drive and speed, has concaves . . . or flat bottom? Is there more to it?

Thanks

We could talk about drucker all day and probably not agree but you state from a previous post regarding the quote in question and its use:

Unless the guy has some amazing achievements under his belt, there is little chance that the quote or it’s observation, has anything to do with him and his bad behavior.”

Lets reason this statement of yours out. If the achievement is “amazing” then the end justifies the means? To review, we are talking about surfing and not the cure for cancer right? Not even an amazing achievement would justify anything immoral or whatever solosufer claims had happen to him. I would run from any preacher quoting drucker.

Regarding this “forgiveness” solosurfer gives out. He forgave but it doesn’t change how much of a scumbag said nemesis is or what he did. Please set him straight on this. Forgiveness is a clean slate and not “forgive but remember”. The guy will have a coronary over this. His nemesis does not even care and solosurfer is a slave to said nemesis unless he truely forgives.

Back to the original topic. Next month is going to be rough in Hawaii. Lots of folks around here do measure success by doing production surfboards. And it’s the backyarders who are hurting. To help those guys until the import pu gets here, eps is a realistic alternative.

They ask for for a clark size, make it for them. You see it as a a problem, I don’t.

No drucker quotes here, just helping some guys get set up to help the crew here until the calvary arrives. I leave here next week knowing I have helped by filling the void Clark foam has left behind. No guilt trips here. Give a man a blank and he shapes for an hour. Teach a man to cut his own foam and he shapes 8 boards per day. The clarkese talk will be a thing of the past in the next few years. The new pu 2x4 will have a new name(probably same dims) from the importer and the eps guys will have customs rockers for each motivated shaper. So when the clarkese is dropped, the living in the past will be a thing of the past. Hop on board or move out of the way, here it comes. Maybe someday you will even be buying foam from one of my crew and we can even probably get your rocker very close to how you remember it.

You all can finish this conversation without me. Sorry to be rude but I will not have internet access for about 6 days. Until then!

AA aka KB

GM: Cheyne, M.R., Damien Hardman, Larry Blair, Terry Fitzgerald, Nicky wood, Danny Qwok, Jeff Hackman and a host of others. Wide tails, skinny noses, thick. Still shapes them thick.

Quote:
We could talk about drucker all day and probably not agree but you state from a previous post regarding the quote in question and its use:

Unless the guy has some amazing achievements under his belt, there is little chance that the quote or it’s observation, has anything to do with him and his bad behavior.”

Lets reason this statement of yours out. If the achievement is “amazing” then the end justifies the means?

Your are still missing the point. The quote points out that people who are extreme are often extreme in both the positives and the negatives. Just like super mellow people are super mellow in both the positive and the negatives.

The quote doesn’t “justify” anything. It comments on the observation of a common trait.

As long as you hang on to the wrong purpose of the quote you will have an argument. But there really isn’t one there, if you understand the observation rather than a justification that you keep trying to hang on to.

To review, we are talking about surfing and not the cure for cancer right? Not even an amazing achievement would justify anything immoral or whatever solosufer claims had happen to him. I would run from any preacher quoting drucker.

I totally agree. Foamaster… do you realize we are not in disagreement? I AGREE WITH YOU! An amazing achievement would not JUSTIFY bad behavior. The quote was not used by me to justify anyones behavior. But simply to make the point that, if you observe life and human nature you will clearly see that those who achieve amazing things, very often also fail at things in equivalently amazing ways. And that is all the quote is saying. And all I was saying by using it.

Clark did amazing things with his business therefore it doesn’t surprise me if he also had a few amazing failures. This doesn’t justify them. It just means that as a student of human nature I would anticipate them. Just as I would in anyone who is reaching out beyond the norms to achieve what others have not. Anticipation is not the same as justification. Don’t confuse them and it will all begin to make the sense it should.

Please don’t pull me into any comments or presumed agreements with solosurfer or anyone else. I have spoken here in my own words and don’t want my comments to be confused with where the thread may have went otherwise for anyone else.

Apparently, you are no fan of Drucker and I have not problem with that. But temper your dislike for him or his politics or whatever it is that bugs you and don’t read so much into the simple quote. I was in no way trying to sell, promote or praise Peter Drucker. Sheesh, you are sounding like you dislike Drucker as much as other do Clark. Give it a rest!

Regarding this “forgiveness” solosurfer gives out. He forgave but it doesn’t change how much of a scumbag said nemesis is or what he did. Please set him straight on this. Forgiveness is a clean slate and not “forgive but remember”. The guy will have a coronary over this. His nemesis does not even care and solosurfer is a slave to said nemesis unless he truely forgives.

I understand and agree. But that is not my battle nor of any particular interest. Help solosurfer all you like to understand your points. Just leave me out of it.

Back to the original topic. Next month is going to be rough in Hawaii. Lots of folks around here do measure success by doing production surfboards. And it’s the backyarders who are hurting. To help those guys until the import pu gets here, eps is a realistic alternative.

Why are you going there? This thread has nothing to do with the Styropoxy vs Pu/Pe battles. And I could care less either way. I am capable of being competitive in both camps if need be and what others do is their business and of no particular concern of mine.

They ask for for a clark size, make it for them. You see it as a a problem, I don’t.

Those were careful words you chose. They don’t ask for a “Clark size” and you know it. They are asking for the quality of the historical design that is referenced by the name of the blank and that design is absolutely the result of the designers talent. I don’s just “see” a problem with it, there is a problem with what you are doing! But there is a very simple and respectful fix.

Foammaster, you are a commercial opportunist that is suggesting that there is some kind of “incredible World Crisis” that is creating some “Huge Human Tragedy” that then justifies your taking advantage of the designers of Clark Foam’s Blanks.

You are skillfully playing the game that I have mentioned before called, Heroes, Victims and Villains. You are creating Victims so that you can be their Hero and anyone stopping you from doing it the way you want comes out the Villain.

Fact is, You can simple send a couple of bucks to every blank designer that you copy the designs or rockers off of and still make all the blanks you want for your Victims and not only still be the fabricated Hero you were trying to be but actually now be a real Hero with all the associated noble traits that come from doing the right thing! And better yet no one has to wind up being your Villain!

Besides…didn’t you say you were going to do this in some previous post. If so, why are we even discussing it. Just do it and be happy about it. It is a good thing you will have done.

No drucker quotes here, just helping some guys get set up to help the crew here until the calvary arrives. I leave here next week knowing I have helped by filling the void Clark foam has left behind.

Can’t you do that and still pay something to the Blank Designers? You act like one nullifies the other. Be the Hero you want to be. Save the day Lone Ranger. No one is stopping you.

No guilt trips here.

I can see that! This is one of the powerful results of a fabricated Heroism. The huge warm fuzzy of being a fabricated Hero clouds the ability to see the actual Villainous activity that is being re-categorized as Heroic, to avoid guilt. Politicians do this everyday. You should run for office Foammaster, you would be great on the campaign trail. Ha!

Give a man a blank and he shapes for an hour. Teach a man to cut his own foam and he shapes 8 boards per day. The Clark’s talk will be a thing of the past in the next few years.

Why do you keep preaching this gospel? Do you think I am interested? Do you think if you say it enough times it will become true? I am not invested in this Styropoxy vs Pu/Pe battle. The future will be what it will be and most of that will be molded surfboards from China and elsewhere.

The new pu 2x4 will have a new name(probably same dims) from the importer and the eps guys will have customs rockers for each motivated shaper. So when the clarkese is dropped, the living in the past will be a thing of the past.

I agree completely. This being so, pay the appropriate royalties now and move on to your original designs with new names and quit building your business on the good will and reputations of others efforts.

Hop on board or move out of the way, here it comes. Maybe someday you will even be buying foam from one of my crew and we can even probably get your rocker very close to how you remember it.

Quite possibly. I have no disagreement with what you are saying, but I would shy away from doing business with someone who I had to give my proprietary rockers and profiles to later who wasn’t responsible with the ones he was getting access to now! I would wonder if that was a historically trustworthy relationship.

You all can finish this conversation without me. Sorry to be rude but I will not have internet access for about 6 days. Until then!

I gotta go too

AA aka KB

Aloha sluggo, Mark, and everyone else.

I am stepping in here to MODERATE my own thread! And I am sorry if I was responsible in anyway for it straying off where it shouldn’t have gone.

SO… Unless you have specific comments about… Blank Producers, Blanks, Blank Designers, Royalties or payments to those Designers, Who should be compensated or shouldn’t be compensated and who should do the compensating…etc… I am personally requesting that you don’t post on this particular thread anymore. I make exception for Foammaster and mine’s discussion as at least it is about the general subject, albeit maybe treading on the edge of being too personal, but the subject is delicate and I am willing to go a couple of more rounds if we can stay on point.

If anyone posts anything more off the specified topic, I am requesting in advance that the moderators to close it down immediately.

Besides I think the general point I was making in this thread is now well understood and everyone can choose how they want to handle themselves and their businesses regarding it. There isn’t much more to say about the subject anyway, though I would be happy to listen if it stays civil and interesting. We got almost 5,000 views so I think the subject was of significant interest to many. So it appears we don’t need the personal battles or the edgy comments that ignite them, or the death they bring to a good thread.

Mark, I am begging you personally, please don’t respond to sluggo within this thread. Take the high road and let it rest. There is nothing to win and only much to lose.

Or start a new thread if you like and refer everyone to it with a simple directional post on this thread, but please don’t continue this battle here.

And sluggo…please do like wise.

Here’s a thought. Maybe Swaylocks needs a mud wresling category under “Discussion Home”, where members can transfer their discussions over to and duke it out all they want, all without it tanking the existing thread.

Aloha Bill,

You asked, “Mark, I am begging you personally, please don’t respond to sluggo within this thread. Take the high road and let it rest. There is nothing to win and only much to lose.”

My apologies to you Bill and to anyone else that I or any of the links I provided have offended in this thread, especially Mr. Clark and Mr Loehr.

I am sorry things got so bad that you felt you had to resort to use the “b” word. I will respectfully submit to your request because it is honest and the right thing to do.

I am thankful for your concern and thankful that you made the extra effort to try and contain the message in this thread. It’s a good one and needs to be voiced right now. What makes me feel fuzzy is that a prominent shaper is taking the reigns and regaining control of his rights. This, for all to know, is real leadership. Real leaders clean up messes.

Aloha,

Mark

Quote:

Regarding this “forgiveness” solosurfer gives out. He forgave but it doesn’t change how much of a scumbag said nemesis is or what he did. Please set him straight on this. Forgiveness is a clean slate and not “forgive but remember”. The guy will have a coronary over this. His nemesis does not even care and solosurfer is a slave to said nemesis unless he truely forgives.

Get over it…I already stated the man is not my nemisis, the discription I gave of a nameless and faceless person will in no way hurt him, because I have left his name and and any facts associated with him OUT. You can totally forgive and not forget. If someone burns you in a business deal or steals from you, you can forgive to where it no longer eats you up, but let me ask you a question: Are you going to do business with him again. If you see someone bullying and shoving his weight around, is it wrong to speak up against it? So, I am certainly no slave to petty resentment. I state my cases here for the most part clearly and directly. You don’t have to agree with them, just as I don’t have to agree with you or others.

Bill in no way endorsed my post or disagreed with it. He made his comments and they stand on their own. I already stated at least twice that the discription I gave of this nameless individual was to make a point about the Drucker quote, which to me is silly. Nothing against Druker individually or even on some of his ideas, but that quote alone simply makes little sense. IMO. This does not reflect on Bill, who post very plainly. I simply responded to the quote itself.

The question of the original post is about stealing others so called intellectual property. My contention is that you have no intellectual property unless you properly and legally protect it. I agree there should be some character, in that people should not rip off other shapers designs etc. but we don’t live in a perfect world and to expect folks to adhere to this type of thing is not living in the real world, but up on clound 9. The next question is who can claim to own certain blank designs, fin configurations etc. There have been numerous post regarding who did what first. Such as, did the pig or nugget come first. Who did the first concave. I mean seriously, there is alot of junk being thrown around about folks like Clark by many who really don’t have a clue or may have personal issues with the man. The fact is, Clark foam is gone, and unless someone protected certain blanks, others will try and copy them and fill a void. Get over it.

Whoever asked the moderators to keep the thread on subject. Come on. Threads take a life of their own many times because there are more than one issue to deal with. People use certain things to make a point and then those things get discussed. Who are you to say what is on subject and whats not? If the mods feel something is out of hand, they have been pretty good at doing their job over the years.

I will say this in reference to Clark, and others in this industry or any other. Reputation is often a mix of truth, lies, and lack of knowledge. Some folks get a raw deal because others spread nasty rumors and some folks finally get their just rewards for their actions. The list could go on. Few people get a bad reputation or lots of accusations unless there is something they do to contribute to it. Being an asshole really does not make you a dishonest person, just as being polite does not make you honest and neither one is against the law. I think people mix this up alot.

If anyone posts anything more off the specified topic, I am requesting in advance that the moderators to close it down immediately.


Hi Bill -

I think it was all pretty much said in the opening post.