Barnfield's Broken Board Repair Manual

General Discussion
21

…hello Bill,

I do in that way , but with some variations, like I use Aerosil, not q cells and I put the pigment (depends the whiter of the board ) and the charge (fill) enough thick to avoid leftovers

any way also I put a mini “stringer” (depends the fracture), but not visible…I mean, I make a “hole” in both parts and insert the wood with the “paste”, and in this way you can also assure the rocker curvatures.

other tip is:

when you ve got the fracture but also a delam , I use several icecream sticks, lam resin. Put the resin between the glass and the foam, then put the sticks to compress (level with the board glass) --I use tape to grab the sticks (to maintain it vertical) to the board (to the rails)

thanks for the photos

22

bill: a very informative thread. pics & info. this is what sways is all about. thank you.

23

Howzit Gregg, I use india ink for most pinlines. The trick to making the tape ( good tape like 3M 233) lay down so the ink won’t bleed is to use an ice cream stick or your thumb nail to press it down real hard. You might still get a little bleedage but not much an it can be taken off with a razor blade. Pre sand the area with 220 grit in the direction of the pinline so there are no cross cuts for ink to bleed into. Yes there will be a small ridge but I use a wall paper roller to flatten them. Let the ink dry completely and then wash the board with soap and water to see if any of the inks bleeds off, this can happen if the ink is not dried completely between coats( usually takes at least 2 coats for full color coverage). Aloha,Kokua

24
Quote:
Bill,

On a different note, not to hijack the thread, I see you are using India Ink to do your pinlines.

Looking closely at your picture I see the marks where you either started or ended your stroke on the tape. Which is it?

Aloha Gregg

Yes that is India ink and a speedball pen. Rapidiograph pens are ok but too much trouble. I don’t know who was the first to use ink or who showed me way back when. But I started using the speedball pens on my own as I wasn’t happy with the Rapdiographs.

The start and stop points are from the pen tip slipping off the edge of the tape. You do have to stop and start as the ink in the tip runs out but this wouldn’t make the lines up onto the tape. To start after the ink runs out it is very hard to drop the tip flat right onto the line so I tip the tip up on edge at the tape and sort of roll it down as I guide it along. That way you don’t misregister the new section and you get the old and new to line up.

Do you find that the ink bleeds under the tape?

Rarely

How do you stop the bleeding. Anytime I have used India ink near tape it sucks up underneath it.

Use good quality tape and Push the edge area down firmly to crush out the tapes crape pretty flat. I use a sanded smooth tongue depressor. The leaking comes from the tape’s crape which is needed for it to go around curves. Of course if you crush down the tapes square edge it will be harder to guide the pen tip along it. It is a balancing act as to how hard to press it down.

If you still get some tiny leaks, I use 2 razor blades one as a guide, one as a scraper. Set the Guide Blade such that the leak just sticks out past the edge of the guide blade. Scrape the leak off lightly with the tip of the scraper blade with the guide blade preventing the scraper from hitting the pinline. Don’t let the guide blade slip. This works for leaks and also to create tapered ends of lines or other design element in the ink lines like strobe stripes.

What grit do you sand up too?

Machine sanded down to 220 or 320. With no deep scratches from the previous grits. Also no weave showing as the weave will whick the ink into it. Some minor weave here and there will be survivable if it isn’t too deep.

How do you keep an even pinline?

Tape smooth archs, without bumps. (is that what you meant?) What do you mean by “even”?

Last question, I think, does the India ink leave a ridge like resin pinline

No it is very thin. Nothing like resin at all. There may be a very slight edge build up near the tape but it will gloss over easily and polish out just fine.

and does the gloss have a problem going over the ink?

No. But some inks will bleed (disolve) under resin. Do some tests. When you find one that works well… good flow, fast dry, opaque, won’t bleed. Buy extra bottles!

I just sand the board. Wipe the area with very clean acetone. Tape it. Ink it. Gloss it. No other steps. Don’t get oily fingers on the boards ever!

(Guess that was two)Thanks a bunch.

Your welcome

Gregg

25
Quote:
...hello Bill,

I do in that way , but with some variations, like I use Aerosil, not q cells and I put the pigment (depends the whiter of the board ) and the charge (fill) enough thick to avoid leftovers

Aloha Reverb.

Thanks for the feed back and contributions. Here are some thoughts on your system.

I am not a big fan of Aerosil, is only a thickener, it doesn’t make the resin lighter, so large voids will fill with heavy resin. It also leaves the fill resin less flexible and more brittle. It is much harder to sand or work with. The more resin content the “hotter” thick areas of fill will get, often cracking or burning. Q-Cell is made up of bubbles. So fills have much less resin content and therefore won’t heat up as easily when thick and set for the quick gel times needed to be profitable at ding repair.

any way also I put a mini “stringer” (depends the fracture), but not visible…I mean, I make a “hole” in both parts and insert the wood with the “paste”, and in this way you can also assure the rocker curvatures.

This is an unnecessary extra step. It doesn’t add any significant strength and setting the rocker in this fashion misses the point that most breaks have clean glass at the rails which if allowed to “refit” themselves, will easily reset the board to the original rocker without this extra step or other contortions. Of course there are always exceptions where the board is so damaged setting the rocker is a whole other step.

other tip is:

when you ve got the fracture but also a delam , I use several icecream sticks, lam resin. Put the resin between the glass and the foam, then put the sticks to compress (level with the board glass) --I use tape to grab the sticks (to maintain it vertical) to the board (to the rails)

Commercially speaking, saving the delaminated glass is usually not profitable due to the time involved and the extra steps needed. Plus it is often very hard to get the glass to re-attach without excess resin being added. Cosmetically it might be worth it from time to time (to save that portrait of Jimmi Hendrix on your 1969 single fin) but that is the only reason I would save the old glass. And then I would Vacuum bag it.

My system is intended for those who want to do the least work in the least time with the best results. There are many ways of doing things but very few that are economically viable. As artists we can easily piss around with all kinds of “artsy” steps that make us artists feel good but do very little for the companies bottom line. If one has the time, and economics are not an issue, then let the artist in you run wild. Personally, I am always way to busy to allow any extraneous steps to creep into my systems.

PS Checked your website, keep up the good work

thanks for the photos

26

Howzit Bill, I agree about using Rapidiographs and what I did was take an old Zig pen and drill a hole in the bottom and refill it with india ink, this now gives you a wedged felt tipped ink pen which works really good for pin lines.Aloha,Kokua

27

[=Blue]Aloha Kokua

You need to tape both sides of the pinline with a felt pen… Right?

With the speedball you only have to tape one side.

28

… Bill, I put the mini stringer when there re lack of foam…a gap of 1´´ or more between the two parts, for me is better to put a “nerve” to join both

also there is no evidence, cause I put this wood in the middle of the 2 parts, so you dont see that in the deck or bottom.

…in a big delam, in my opinion if you tear out all the glass, you need to fine sand the foam and then put a new one…this is heavy for me and a patch ( and you have to put more cloth cause you sanded a bit the foam…) is not good for the overall resistence…

may be is like you say, oversteps…

Thank you

29

Howzit Bill, For a regular curved pin yes it usually requires a double tape off. But I have done them with just a single tape off and use a straight stick for straight pins. There’s also those free hand designs like barbed wire or just squiggle pins that don’t need any tape. I just like the fact that refilling the zig pen gives me a wider felt tip(6mm)than you can get from rapidiograph. Aloha,Kokua

30
Quote:
... Bill, I put the mini stringer when there re lack of foam...a gap of 1´´ or more between the two parts, for me is better to put a "nerve" to join both

also there is no evidence, cause I put this wood in the middle of the 2 parts, so you dont see that in the deck or bottom.

Aloha Reverb

I understand though I have rarely seen broken boards were there isn’t enough left to set the halves together pretty accurately. If foam was gone across the whole gap then that would pose a whole other batch of problems.

I hesitate in any way to recommend dowels or “nerves” as you say as it seems so logical and is often taken to extremes by beginners. In reality they are not necessary at all and if they can be avoided I whole heartedly encourage it. The rail taping is a powerful tool that will easily resolve 99% of all alignment issues. And a strip on the deck or bottom as need be, will easily and accurately fine tune the rocker.

…in a big delam, in my opinion if you tear out all the glass, you need to fine sand the foam and then put a new one…this is heavy for me and a patch ( and you have to put more cloth cause you sanded a bit the foam…) is not good for the overall resistence.

The sample board I am repairing has a big hunk of glass gone on the bottom. You will be able to see how I deal with it. I don’t fine sand the foam unless I need to color it. Of course sometimes you don’t have the old piece of glass anyway! I don’t think there is much difference between the weight of a new piece of cloth or sticking down the old one. In fact, the old piece already has the weight it had, plus you are adding more resin to glue it back in place and then more glass and resin to cover the seams etc. We are straining at gnats here as these details may be too small to really matter much but the next steps in my repair will make some things more clear.

may be is like you say, oversteps…

Overdoing steps leads to the economic failure of many commercial enterprises. For example, in sanding a hotcoated board… how far should one go with each grit of sandpaper and what grit should they start with? If you start too fine, you have to sand too much wasting time and effort. If you try to get the coarse grit too perfect you are working with it too long where it isn’t designed to go.

Having a very clear understanding of each material and tool and knowing the outcome one wants to achieve is very important. Then each material and tool can be used specifically within the most productive parameters of its capacities. In so doing, one’s speed increases and the time and materials costs drop significantly… while the quality takes a big leap upward. This is all due to the fact that the available time is spent on what most matters and this allows bonus time and freedom to focus on those things which effect quality. This may be the greatest value of working in a quality production shop. It is where everything is reduced down to only the necessary minimums.

Thank you

31
Quote:
Howzit Bill, For a regular curved pin yes it usually requires a double tape off. But I have done them with just a single tape off and use a straight stick for straight pins. There's also those free hand designs like barbed wire or just squiggle pins that don't need any tape. I just like the fact that refilling the zig pen gives me a wider felt tip(6mm)than you can get from rapidiograph. Aloha,Kokua

[=Blue]Aloha Kokua

I understand. For freeform or straight edge guided work your solution is great. Posca Pens are always frustrating cause the tips wear out and the ink runs out. If the pen tips you are referring to hold up then you may have a perfect solution as long as they dispense opague enough ink so you don’t have to go back over it twice.

[=Blue]

32

Howzit Bill, I stopped using Posca’s years ago and only use india ink for pins these days.The zig pens worked really good ( pigment ink)but are no longer sold on Kauai and they have better tips( wedge) than Posca’s. I do have to do a second coat some times but as long as the first is totally dry there is no problem doing a second coat. I wash the board with soap and rinse and find that if the ink is going to bleed it will do it when I do this. I punch a hole in the bottom of an empty zig pen and use a printer ink refill syringe to fill the pens then just tape over the hole to keep the ink from leaking out. Every once in a blue moon a customer wants a pigment pin and I’m one of those guys who shoots the pin and then shoots the gloss after the pin kicks but before it’s totally hard and would need a sand job before glossing. This was the technique I was taught in the late 60’s by Gary Tuhrnagle who was the owner of Plastic Fantastic then. Cleanlines is another person who knows how to do them this way( you too probably ) but timing is the real trick to it.Aloha,Kokua

33

Thanks for the thread Bill.

Very helpful

Ray

34

hi Bill !

…do you have any more photos of what you do next , please ???

cheers

ben
35

Fantastic job Bill, taking the time to repair, list and photograph the steps takes some real skill and effort, I just wish I had seen this 20 years ago when I started in the repair business. It’s interesting that over the years I learned to repair broken boards in almost the exact way you have shown here, the only thing I did different was using 5 minute epoxy to join the two pieces together, re-laminated the torn cloth on the halves before joining them together so the filler could be sanded off of fiberglass instead of foam and use three inch tape to hold broken long boards together then counter balance them on the rack with weights to get the rocker (almost) right.

I’ve been out of the surf business for a few years now and I miss having a shop to bang around in and the conversations on waves, shapes, fishing and fun.

36

Aloha Retiredofdings

Thanks. I will get back to finishing that board soon. Probably after Christmas though. Your comment on learning is right on. It is part of the magic of cottage industry and part of the nightmare. There are few standards and tons of old wives tales about how it should be done and why. There aren’t many places where one can get the real scoop on how to do something and skip past all the crap. When your dinking around on your own it doesn’t matter much but when you are trying to make a living it can be the difference between success and failure.

I know what you mean about having a shop to hang around. There is some special pixi dust that floats around places were creative work is done. Pretty special stuff that can’t easily be duplicated. On the other hand, trying to survive economically from these kinds of business’ can be quite a challenge. Enjoy your retirement!

37

this just in , from my brother …

"

Howdy Ben

I just spent an hour writing an accompanying blurb, only to have it disappear into cyberspace at the touch of a key. ****! Here goes again, post this on the snapped board thread at your lesiure…

Gidday.

Very impressed with Bill Barnfields input. the man is the consumate craftsman.

I've been fixing snaps here in oz for a few years now since i came up with this jig... The difficulty in fitting broken boards back together is 4  dimensional: you must align stringer, rails, bottom and deck planes AND the all important rocker. The Lazarus Industries Snapjig allows you to do all these things single handed and with sturdy support throughout!   As you can see, the jig consists of three brackets that attach to a square pole. All three have a galvanised steel bolt by which means they can be tightened to the post. The photos show the prototype that has not progressed any farther because of my slackness and the fact that it works well enough. It is certainly possible to make a cleverer version.   The bottom bracket is for the fins (or fin) to hook over. The middle bracket aligns with the break, as shown. The Tail half is held in place with an occy strap.  The top bracket is attatched to the post, high up, and finger-tightened - so as not to slide down. The nose half of the board is fitted to the tail section, occy sttrapped in place and roughly lined up so the rocker is reasonable. The top bracket is loosened, slid down till it contacts the board and 1/2 tightened again.   Now the clever guys will realize at this point that the three brackets are not the same. looking at the profile photo showing the rocker- you can clearly see that- as you would expect: The middle bracket has the shortest distance from post to board bottom, the bottom bracket the 2nd shortest and the top bracket, the longest. Just like a surfboard rocker laying bottom down on the floor.   OK, Now you step back and eye up the rocker. To adjust; more rocker...move the top bracket down the post, less ... move top bracket up the post. Simple! When it looks right, tighten off the bolt. You can fine tune the rocker after the board has been stuck back together as i'm sure Bill will explain.   Now undo occy and remove Nose half. Put it to one side. Mix up a nice stiff batch of Qcell. Peanut butter, not tahini! (thanks Ben). Smear it on Tail half, nice and thick. Refit Nose half. Occy strap. Align stringer and rails. Skwoosh down Nose half. Scrape off skwooshed overflow. Recheck alignment. Bobs your uncle!   A cleverer version of this would be a post that pivots easily from vertical to horizontal at a comfortable working height. Unfortunately it's not possible to use a rocker stick on a Lazarus Industries Snapjig but it's a lot easier to eye a rocker for truth looking along a rail  than a board standing vertical. just as it's a lot easier to Qcell a board standing vertical  than it is to attempt it horizontal.   I'm sure I am not the only person to think of this method of aligning snaps - it's so simple and obvious. feel free to make your own, improve it if you will but if you do market it commercially, please send me a decent royaly cheque  every year.

thank you. "

[just give me a few minutes to resize Simon’s accompanying photos , and I will post them here too , okay …]

cheers

ben

38

" As you can see, the jig consists of three brackets that attach to a square pole. All three have a galvanised steel bolt by which means they can be tightened to the post. The photos show the prototype that has not progressed any farther because of my slackness and the fact that it works well enough. It is certainly possible to make a cleverer version.The bottom bracket is for the fins (or fin) to hook over. The middle bracket aligns with the break, as shown. The Tail half is held in place with an occy strap."

“The top bracket is attatched to the post, high up, and finger-tightened - so as not to slide down. The nose half of the board is fitted to the tail section, occy strapped in place and roughly lined up so the rocker is reasonable. The top bracket is loosened, slid down till it contacts the board and 1/2 tightened again.”

Now the clever guys will realize at this point that the three brackets are not the same. looking at the profile photo showing the rocker- you can clearly see that- as you would expect: The middle bracket has the shortest distance from post to board bottom, the bottom bracket the 2nd shortest and the top bracket, the longest. Just like a surfboard rocker laying bottom down on the floor. OK, Now you step back and eye up the rocker. To adjust; more rocker…move the top bracket down the post, less … move top bracket up the post. Simple! When it looks right, tighten off the bolt.

You can fine tune the rocker after the board has been stuck back together as i’m sure Bill will explain. Now undo occy and remove Nose half. Put it to one side.

Mix up a nice stiff batch of Qcell. Peanut butter, not tahini! (thanks Ben).

Smear it on the tail half, nice and thick. Refit Nose half. Occy strap. Align stringer and rails. Skwoosh down Nose half. Scrape off skwooshed overflow. Recheck alignment.

Bob’s your uncle!

A cleverer version of this would be a post that pivots easily from vertical to horizontal at a comfortable working height. Unfortunately it’s not possible to use a rocker stick on a Lazarus Industries Snapjig but it’s a lot easier to eye a rocker for truth looking along a rail than a board standing vertical. just as it’s a lot easier to Qcell a board standing vertical than it is to attempt it horizontal. I’m sure I am not the only person to think of this method of aligning snaps - it’s so simple and obvious.

feel free to make your own, improve on it if you will , but if you do market it commercially, please send me a decent royaly cheque every year.

thank you. "

[humour runs in our family like diarrhoea , some would say…however , you CAN send Simon a cheque or three [hundred] , if you feel so inclined …‘Wildy’ here will readily attest to the fact that Simon is not a bad bloke , really …your cheque is in the mail , Greg , by the way !]

Well, I hope this has been helpful , and of course , I welcome your thooughts and comments on this too, please , Bill …as , with our current flat spell, when I get my fiirst pay packet , I DEFINATELY need to be fixing my mal’s snap , to have a weapon to cruise on for these tiny days !

cheers !

ben

39

Thanks for the reply Bill and I definitely understand the difficulty in attempting to make a living in the board manufacturing industry, thank the maker I got out before the Clark crash. Our area is still slow even with the influx of decent Brazilian blanks and local inspired EPS stuff, Quiet Flight’s main laminator has taken up repair work to make ends meet and they are one of the busiest factories on the East coast, I guess only time will tell, maybe one day people will understand that people such as yourself are artists and that they are purchasing not just a surf board but a functional piece of art and pay accordingly.

Chipfish, that is a fantastic idea, I used to dread the day a broken long board showed up and I turned a lot of them down because they took up too much room and time, your jig would have made my life easier and more profitable.

40

Hi Bill,

Any update on the repair?

I feel like Im hanging off a cliff! :wink:

Ive highlighted some choice comments below and I think the crew here would like further input on stringer, or lack thereof, affects.

Even if the rocker comes out a little off, I have a simple solution to reset the rocker that I will show you later when we get to that point. When taping up the board at the rails make sure you don’t get the board twisted. Make sure the nose is accurately aligned with the tail. No twist or tilt. If the rocker is not perfect we can fix it later.

As was noted in the other thread by Resinhead, you don’t need any dowels, inserts, stringers or other strengthening devices to make the board secure. In the end, the glass alone will provide all the necessary strength.

Found these comments from GregL from way back:

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=118933;search_string=stringers;#118933

I think JimP has also made some similar comments recently.

Just for fun, got a buddy with a broken stick we will be repairing in the next couple of months. This thread is a timely gem.

Mahalo in advance.

Cheers