Belly in the nose...? Looking for longboard Masters response... or anyone else for that matter..

Been lurkin’ for a long time but now I have a question: I am thinking about shaping a 9’3" standard longboard – hard rails in the back 18", flowing to downturned to neutral rails in the front. My question lies in the effect of combining a convex nose with a concave carved within. In other words; a board with a belly in the nose but a concave at the apex of the belly. Would the nose slip too much when the rider moves towards the tip? My thought is steering towards a board that moves through the chop smoothly yet has the lift that a concave affords… Am I all wet??? Thanks, Magoo P.S. The Gene Autry Museum is holding a Free Beach Party Festival on June 22nd. Dick Dale, Agent Orange, The Surfaris, The Eliminators, The Tornadoes and The Duotones will be playing; The Kill 6 and Flight Academy will play on the screen; The California Woody Club will be there; all sorts of activities for the lil’ ones; Heal the Bay; Surfrider Foudation etc… will all be representing as well. The piece de resistence is local shaper/artist Ray Wallace will be shaping a Balsa Board for all to see (he is the guy that designed Foam-EZ’s t-shirt shaper). It ought to be a good time. 12:00 noon to 7:00 p.m. I’m taking the tribe right after the Dodgers teach the Angels how it’s done… Aloha, M

I’m by no means a longboard master. Phil Becker and Rich Harbour (and many others) are and they all do some designs as you describe. I mention Becker and Harbour because they do it so differently - Becker blends his and Harbour uses those slot channels. Both transition from concave to neutral or “up” rails.

Thanks John. Have you ridden the boards you described? I recently did some ding repair on a 10.0 SanO with the slots. That model seemed to have the convex in the nose done with such a sharp angle as to appear to be more more like a ‘V’ in the nose going to the side channels. I was thinking along the lines of a gentle curved convex – not too pronounced, just enough to cut through slight chop that we have during the spring morning sickness sessions that HB experiences(will June gloom ever go away???). After looking at Rich’s longboard fins on this site I think they might be a good addition to the design(nice work Halcyon). I guessing that someone at Sways has already done this and I’m looking for the ride characteristics of the design. Thanks, Magoo

Magoo, Robert August does something very similar to what you’re talking about by putting a water drop shaped concave central to the rocker of his boards. It must work reasonalbly well or he wouldn’t do it. It might be a good idea to rent one of his surftech to get a feel for how it performs. Thanks for the kind words on the longboard set-up. I’ll let you know what the guy on the 9’2" Yater says about them. I’m putting something similar on my Haut tnat’s a little narrower for the south that’s running here. Good luck on the longboard, Off to work, Rich

Hey Magoo, I do this often, concentrating the concave close to the center line of the nose and rolling the bottom off to the rails. It makes the board less edgy and softens where you can place it in the wave face.

i think the best example of this combo is on the josh farberow(sp?) model by aqua tech.Scott does a really clean job of combining a concave in the belly.they work real good too.

Yes - each of the described types. I actually prefer a slight belly with no concave in the nose. They may not noseride as well but it seems as if they catch waves easier.

i have rounded the botom on my boards and drew a concave oval, but sanded it FLAT. the areas around the line were my ‘edges’ along with a flat planing surface where the concave would go- that mother was fasssst. too fast sometimes. but in theory, if you surfed a beachbreak 100% of the time, this application could be very useful.

I’ve been shaping boards for Robbie Kegel, no concave, nice roll under the nose, he and his friends are amazed and baffled by how well they nose ride. The roll lets the board move THROUGH the water, not just over it, in this way the board seeks a line rather than skipping like a stone over water.

“The roll lets the board move THROUGH the water, not just over it, in this way the board seeks a line rather than skipping like a stone over water.” Sounds like a good surfmat, Jim.

Jim, Would you recommend no concave for a better noserider (with the nose roll)? What effect would a concave have on the shape you are carving for Robbie? Thanks, Magoo P.S. Thanks to all that have participated in the thread. I truly appreciate all of your comments. M

Belly in the nose is associated more with old school equipment and 50/50 rails than modern longboards designed for choppy, hacking amatuer shortboard style tricks longboards.

sounds like order of importance in a noserider lays out more like this, length, parallel rails, then weight, then tail flip, then deep fin, ‘then’ nose concave and then, oh yeah! actual riding skill is in there somewhere. Except two things! THE BING NUUHIWA NOSERIDER HAS DEEP DISH NOSE CONCAVE!! and the second thing is 95% of those 60’s logs ride/rode like shit compared to the other 5% of the premium ones like the 1966-1967 shapes that evolved around noseriding and duh,'CONCAVE’noses. Talking about hanging ten here, not a lame five that can be done on a fricken BZ foam learner board!!! I have all styles of over 9’6" shapes and the best is the often copied Bing Nuuhiwa copy(and this outline is copied by every noserider I’ve ever seen lately!), the Step Deck style/no concave takes off like a bat out of hell when in trim, not the best for stable walking/noseriding but can be done. I want the push up of the back of the dish concave (also the slowing down from resistance), for that ‘extra’ second of noseriding when the wave steep section has ended and back peddling is immediately eminent. After the stall setup for a 2-step walk to the nose entering a steep section, and after the first full cross-step into trim if a board takes off it makes the second step either too immediate or it becomes more out of control(for a stylish controlled walk). The DEEP DISH concave has the resistence of that concave ending into flat that pushes up and resists. This is in reference to the notion of hanging ten, hanging five is ‘way less’ difficult and any basic longboard design has worked with a competant rider…What do ‘you’ think!!! And have you actually pulled a stall, relaxed double crossstep, five to ten, and backpeddled (no shuffling). Got to have the basic but updated, and still relevent today 1967 9’6"+ garden variety noserider. Am i wrong?

Well, damn, Surf Hungry, you finally let the cat of the the bag. You mean a surfers abilty really has something to do with him being able to nose ride? I thought it was plain luck that Carson, Fain, Dora and the rest of the professors at the Old School were able to ever get on the nose on those old non progressive, narrow nosed, pieces of doo-doo. Imagine, skill does have something to do with it!!!

All too many shpers are caught up in the trap that a GOOD nose rider has to have a freakin 20 inch nose. Everytime I get one of these orders and can’t sway the customer away from it, it just about makes me want to puke. It’s not a surfboard, but a giant stirring stick. Boards with some clean roll in the bottom work best on a narrower nose, under 18" and preferibly 16-3/4" to 17-1/2". The LOOK of the board becomes really appealing and the control on the nose becomes much less OUT of control. You see the platform noses, side slipping out as soon as the wave really turns into a WAVE, not that mush ball, stretch five that goes for a real nose ride. Nose riding takes place in the curl, not 3 board lengths out a head of it. Yes, I do noses that are 19" wide. with a DEEP cvoncave under them, but flow it out from start to finsh and roll the last 4-5" of the bottom. The same board with less nose and a wing rail, very Blue Machine, works like a beast from hell or heaven, your choosing. But like Surf Hungry says, ablity is a major factor in there some place. No board is going to change you into a champ over night

Yeah i sure would’nt mind that nice, peeling point break they were at either! Those guys were aliens or something, but i can see how noseriding would come in handy when 6-8 kooks on a right wouldn’t allow room for cutbacks or anything else!! Loved Carson what a great stylist, can’t say i ever saw Dora hanging ‘ten’ in my old mags, gonna re-look tonight. Don’t mean to sound like anything just passionate about hanging ten that’s all!

ive been trying like a mother to get noseriding down,i wiegh 135 lbs, all my boards have 18, and 19 inch noses but the one that rides the best has a 17 in nose w/ a flow through concave and flip in the tail ,i have better control in the curl w/ it. 5’s are easy 10’s are a bitch, i can do it,rarely-by the way i own one of you shapes and it is a marterpiece of craftmanship,i think im going to break down and order a 9-8 david nuuhiwa noserider type . am i making a mistake? is the smaller nose better for me?

I think your mention of flip in the tail may be more of the secret