Here it is my latest inspired by bert
eps 4oz red beech 4oz perimeter stringers with my own adjustable fin boxs
6mm for and aft and 8 degrees toe in range
the whole thing came in .25kg less than my standard epoxy
have not surfed it yet as its howling onshore
thanks swaylock crew,all the answers are right here
Very impressive. How did you make your fin boxes?
very nice…
how much difficulty in making it compared with a std epoxy layup?
oh yeah - how does it ride?
Very nice, how did you do the perimeter stringer?
Beautiful board. Did you use 0.5mm veneer? There is a guy up in Kerekerei milling Paulonia. It’s being grown right here in Northland. I bought some for my next board. PM me if you are interested and I can give you his number. Your fins look great.
Jon
Hi Guys
Well I have had the first surf on it on sunday,good head height solid beachbreak waves
It was a little larger than I would have liked for the first surf,iam allways a little worried getting through the impact zone on a new board in surf like this
Once out there were some nice peaks with short workable walls,so how did it go —magic-- paddles well rides real smooth, when compared to the standard blank epoxy i have which is the same plan template but slightly less nose kick it seemed springier
I can’t wait for the next session on it
Bish
The finboxs and plugs ,the plugs which hold the fins are made from good quality ply glass covered .Where the fin slots in and where the screws are, were drilled out first and filled with epoxy and glue fiber
All this and the routing out of the fin slots is done prior to cutting the round shape out of the ply sheet
After cutting out from the sheet, The plugs have a 3 degree camber on there sides so they fit snuggly into the boxs
For the boxs I first routed out the plug shape in a piece of solid timber this forms the mould,First lay a piece of gladwrap over the mould then lay five 4oz layers on then insert the plugs glad wrap covered first
Hold them in place with clamps
A small alloy taping plate was then glued on to the bottom of the boxs
for the plug holding screws ,if you do this make sure that you put some anti corrision cream in the holes from time to time ,other wise the ss screws will react with the alloy plate
Silverback
The general build for this board was a bit longer than usual and I had a few disasters along the way,the best one was when I over vacuumed the core and crushed it all
The good thing with eps is that its real easy to cut out the wrecked bit and put a new bit in
For this board I used a rocker table ,as I wanted to be certain that the rocker remained true
For the next board I dont thik I will need one
The baging of the veneer is a bit time comsuming,especially on the rails as I applied veneer all the way round
Troy
The perimeter stringers were set in 25mm from the rail and presented no real problems
It seems easiest to shape your blank without the stringers first,leaving it just cutoff then use the blank and some cardboard to template the stringers
Once the stringers are attached its real easy to attach the rail foam
As I said above if you make a mistake or decide you dont like the rail shape it super easy at this stage to cut them off and try again
For my stringers I used 3mm solid cherry,iam not so keen on ply as a lot of the grain in ply is going the wrong direction
Jong
The veneer was standard red beech from Gibsons in Auckland I think it may be just over 1/2 a mil
I have some Sapelia here for a board in the future and I am keen to try some balsa I will PM you on that supplier you know
Once again many thanks to Bert for the inspiration, It was only after reading many of his posts that realized that i too could build some thing that nice
It gives you a great feeling people say" hay, check the cool board out "as you walk past
Of course this feeling is totally surpassed by the pure pleasure of riding it for the first time
Mike
Very nice! Id like to try that sometime but im afraid id end up with a disaster…if i can ever get my brain around the techniques to do it I just might give it a shot…
Beautiful board !
Can you give us a little more details on how you managed to wrap the veneer around the rails ?
Hi Pierre
The bottom veneer lapped about 10mm up the rail -before doing this get some veneer tape from the local ply veneer pressing factory,its just white paper tape with a water activated glue on one side (its like licking a giant stamp)
Place this all around the edge of your veneer,this will stop it spliting and it scrapes or sands off after-do this for the deck veneer too otherwise there is a good chance it will split when you try to bend it in two planes
After the bottom has dried sand a scaff into the edge and lap the next piece on ,i did the rail in three strips each separatly each scaffed
When you cut the small strips they have to match the rocker as a straight strip will not go round
Finally place the deck on
Each of these steps I placed the veneer and held it with masking tape prior to baging down
None of this takes long to do,the thing that takes time is waiting for the glue to dry so you can go to the next step
I used the same bag each time sleeping bag style
when its all veneered you just sand away and the feather edges blend in,if you sand through dont fret, sand out a flat area stick on another bit of veneer and again when sanded it will blend with the others
I am sure that my next board i can do much quicker this one took about three weeks of evenings after work including time for the family inbetween
to keep the wife happy !!
Mike
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge. i’m very impressed. You make it seem so easy, but I’m sure i does take a lot of experience to master both veneer layout and vacuum bagging.
Do you get a watertight result such that you could avoid to have to laminate the board? I know Chris Garett only brushes a water based polyurethane sealant (http://www.seajuice.com/sjnewchrisgarrett.html)
Hi Pierre
I think with eps you need laminate both sides of the veneer,thats how the board gets its strength through the skins.
Mike
Well, that’s what I believed until I saw the web site of C. Garrett and read the following :
“The boards are a polystyrene shaped blank that are then veneered all over, rails included, with a 2mm timber veneer. This is simply glued down using a water catalyzed glue, sanded and then finished off using outdoor furniture lacquer. They contain NO fiberglass!! …”
The veneer job must then be perfect with not a single gap or crack. how can it be ?
Hi Pierre
2mm veneer is very thick- the one i used and the standard we use in boatbuilding is around .5 of a mil
2 mm i think may be hard to find and quite expensive - in boatbuilding the sole boards we fit are ply with a patten veneer some times the owners want thicker veneer for better wear and less damage ,we have found it hard to get and what we could get which was 1.2mm was twice the price
I tend to like the idea of a composite skin as opposed to a full timber skin when glued to a low density core such as eps
I guess you should go with what you think will work for you
mike
stoked!!!
ive got weeks of catching up to do and i come across this thread …
board certainly looks kool … i know that feeling when crew say " hey check out the wood board" every day customers will ring me up and say thats the response they always get no matter where they go … kinda gives you a warm feeling , makes your job worthwhile …
what density eps did you use sabs??? .5 venneer will feel a little spongy if the core is to light …
love the look , good shine , nice grain …cant beat the smoothe ride of timber , combined with flex and spring … theres a magic in the ride…
pierre …
dont mean to sound abrupt , but theres no way 2mm cedar without glass would handle anything close to punishment …
i once had a board , eps core , 1.6mm aircraft ply with glass either side , my foot went straight through the deck , purely coz i didnt have enough glass either side ,
the only way i could see timber without glass either side , would be, the heaviest eps possible as a core and that would be questionable …
cutloose do timber over p/u foam and even that has glass either side …
its possible to make a board any way you want , how long it lasts is another question …
im surprised at where chris’s boards have ended up , he once walked into my factory years ago , i was in the middle of something , he says " i was wondering how you did that ?" , as we talked it was obvious he already had experience with the concept of building wooden boards , and thats why he was interested in what we did and how we did it …
so the bit that surprises me , is how they are where there at, construction wise , considering the amount of time and experience they have working with the materials …
it may not be evident or mentioned , but the only concievable way i can see cedar over eps without glass , is to make a cedar ply with 1mm cedar criss crossed , with the outerlayer lengthways for looks ,
maybe the site doesnt give all the facts ???
either way done right , its possible to build a wooden shell over sl grade eps and have a finished board lighter than a standard urethane shaped blank…and still last 10 times longer than a standard board …
sabs , nice work , stoked to hear i could have inspired someone …you made my day …
its a welcome change , with all the dramas ive had lately…
i got some kool stuff coming through , post pics soon , hopefully some more inspiration…
regards
BERT
My Dad says that veneer boards are not really wooden boards at all and that they are full of polystyrene. My Dad also says that Cedar veneer is stronger than the Balsa veneer bert uses. Please answer this question. Do you hate other wood veneer board builders and is that why you are always saying that they are wrong?
Thanks in advance, Morgan.
Excellent job sabs!
Did you vacuum bag the bottom veneer first then overlap the top? Do you have any rail seam pictures that you could post? I was looking at a website today where a lady who repairs boards said this the the sequence it is normally done. here: http://www.boardlady.com/ and some great repair advice when you get to that point 
Again great work for a first one.
hey morgan , your dad is absolutly right …veneer is just that , a veneer covering …
you could have toilet rolls inside if you wanted , but that doent look as nice…
your dad is also right in saying cedar veneer is stronger than balsa veneer …
cedar is way stronger …
but balsa with glass either side of it and resin infused into it at high pressure with heat is going to be stronger than any peice of cedar veneer without glass either side of it …
i dont hate other wood veneer board builders , i just have no respect for the ones who make grand claims about there product , who try to take shortcuts , or save a few dollars and end up comprimising on the finished quality of there boards …
in some cases its just a matter of going through a learning process and improving as you go , that all takes time to work out what works best and what will give the best results …im more than happy to point people in the right direction or offer advice to help get the best results …
in other cases some people actually know better , but they spit out an inferior product for the sake of making an easier buck …
its only time that sorts out the good from the bad …
im not saying people who build other veneer boards are wrong , just that some methods will get better results than others …
just look at cutloose , nice boards ,good work ,sound construction technique …
theyve been doing it 15 years and have got it worked out , they deliver a consistent reliable product …you can bet that along the way they made a few mistakes as have the rest of us , thats part of the learning process …
how we go about rectifying our mistakes and refining what we do will show whether we do it for the right reasons or not …
some crew give up and go back to making polys, others are happy to push out second rate crap coz its got a high profile name on it ,and others will continue to try and improve and look for ways to make it stronger ,or lighter , or faster , or whatever way they can to make an improvement …
those people pushing the boundries and trying new stuff will always be in a position to apraise anyone elses work and make a judgement on methods or techniques theyve used in the past …
but if your making judgements on techniques or methods you havent tried or are not familiar with , then your comments would have no authority…
hope that answer covers it …
regards
BERT
Hi Bert and Glenn
Glenn yes I bagged the bottom them the rails then the deck the rails were done in three strips
One of the posts above explains it ,Pics wont show a lot on the finished board Ive started a new one and will thake a few pics as i go
Bert
Thanks mate, I just had a fantastic long weekend surfing,the new board just feels more alive than my standard blank epoxys
The eps I used seemed pretty light,It was from a building supplier here.I tried but never did get the density out of them
The deck feels ok not soft Only problem so far was a small length ways crack in the glass over the rail stringers in the same spot that I put my knee when duck diving
I have increased the glass layup there and up where you put your hands when standing up
I have a couple of ideas on how to prevent this happening on the next one which is well under way
The eps from this one is coming out of a large block
We have had Mouldcam in Brisbane cut the plug for a new 43 foot power boat,when it arrived they had covered it with eps to protect it (the plug itself is eps core covered with epoxy then a tooling mix cnc machine then machines this,talk about fair,this thing has no bumps or ripples in it )so I now have lots of eps to play with ya hoo
The red beech veneer is quite thin but very firm also the blank for that board was made from 20mm sheets laminated to form the rocker ,I thing that the glue line may have helped firm it up a bit
I may add a extra laminate to the layup of the next one
Mike
with the thickness veneeer your using , you have two possible directions to go in …
either keep the existing .5mm veneer and use a heavier foam …
or keep using the lighter foam and find a thicker veneer …
the lengthways crack is from to much flex in the sandwich…your glass has to do all the work across the board , coz the wood will withstand load well ,lengthways , but not across the grain …
to keep it light , running weave on a 45 degree angle helps there …
coz now you probably have the standard direction weave pattern , half the weave running lengthways with the grain of the timber and half running across the grain …the half running across the grain is doing all the work …by putting angle on the glass under the sandwich it does twice as much work…
also look at where your compression is … its all on the outside …all the tension is on the inside ,
in areas of heavy compression , make sure you have proportionatly more glass on the outside …
ill be honest with ya sabs …every veneer board ive ever built using a heavier timber at .6mm thickness on any foam under 25kg per m 3 … they all snapped …
the biggest reason is the thickness of the sandwich wasnt enough over a lighter eps …the boards ended up folding usually under the front foot on landings …
you can use more glass but the skin will still flex …
there are so many options available , i dont know which one to recomend first ???
you can still run the light eps thin veneer combo …
but look to stuff like core mat or pvc reinforcing in the heavy traffic areas…
extra glass just wont cut it long term …if its just for your own boards , then extra glass in the right places will do , it wont go the distance long term , but it will be dam light while it lasts , heaps of fun to surf …
i end up making my own boards lighter than anything a team guy would ever get …
and probably less than half of what my average customer would get …if someone is paying the money … they deserve bullet proof …ok thats enough i could keep going all day…
regards
BERT
Hi Bert
Thanks for the feed back
I have found out that the foam I used is 25 kg per m/3
The boards are just for myself so I will just keep an eye on it
Its pretty easy to fix anything as long as you catch it early
The two solid cherry stringers should help carry some of the load
On the next one I plan in that pressure area to lay some extra veneer down two layers at 45 degrees ,that will just take the hard edge from the stringer
I do where practical lay my cloth at 45 degrees
I think that a light weight tri-axe glass direct on the foam under the veneer would most likly help things too
Its amazing how light a laminate you can use if the fibers are all going the right way
On my yacht which is strip planked with 25mm duracore (dura core is endgrain balsa sandwiched between two 2mm veneers ,the veneers run for and aft) the only glass layup is a single skin each side of 800gm tri-axe.
Over 13 meters there are only five transverse ringframe bulkheads and four longitudinal grid frames
As you say the cross weave in a standard surfboard is really a bit of a waste of time
How thick is the balsa that you are using ? If its a secret dont worry I understand
regards Mike