BWAHAHAHAH!!! ROFL!! Must be paid by the hour.
That is NOT how it is done.
Pat Gray, Steve Eichner, Carl & Otis Schaper, Brian Ping, et al. Masters.
Who taught you?
I’m going to try to get a vid up, but need a friend w/a camera who knows what to do w/the video to get it to the forum. I haven’t a clue about that stuff. Anyone on Oahu want to handle all that stuff, I’ll drive the squeegee. PM me.
Me. Look forward to seeing the video.
Just got the call. I’m the man. I’ll even try to ad some Right Said Fred as a sound track to accommodate Bammbamm’s request. Will be the first time editing on a Mac.
Blah! Right said dead, drop dead Fred, Freddie’s dead. They’re all the same
Baaaaa-a-a-a-a-a-a-a
Yeah more (proper) videos of people glassing please…
Wouldn’t cutting the cloth on the rails make the board a lot weaker in those spots? Not necessary anyway is it?
Last board i glassed was a 6’8 that was glassed with epoxy, anyway on all my boards I’ve had problems with wetting out the laps.
What’s a good way to wet out the laps? Especially without wasting a lot of resin like the guy in the video above does.
How do people get the the laps wet out and saturated well? Especially with the small amounts of resin recommended in the epoxy guidelines that can be found here on Swaylocks!
Any special tricks to wetting out the laps??? Please…
No pissing contest, I think my post came off wrong. It seems most people think that he did his logos incorrectly. he also makes more cuts in his lap along the rail than he needs to. Some people suggest that he is working too slow?
here is my question. What dont you like about the way he treats the nose and tail, and what does he do wrong handling the cloth?
Thanks for setting us rookies straight.
No pissing contest, I think my post came off wrong. It seems most people think that he did his logos incorrectly. he also makes more cuts in his lap along the rail than he needs to. Some people suggest that he is working too slow?
here is my question. What dont you like about the way he treats the nose and tail, and what does he do wrong handling the cloth?
Thanks for setting us rookies straight.
One thing about the way he handled the cloth, he takes a very “hands-on” approach. I was taught to grab the corners nose and tail and pull it tight (not at the same time!). Then go over it with a wall paper brush to smooth/stretch it out. Cut laps at that point. I didn’t pay close attention to how he squeegeed the resin out, so I won’t comment on that. I agree, he didn’t need darts in the rail near the tail. I thought the nose cut looked okay, not how I would do it, but it’s okay. On a shortboard, I cut a notch perpendicular to the stringer on one rail and straight out the stringer on the other and wrap it (IMO, this makes for a stronger nose and just requires a little sanding before glassing the deck). I was guessing that maybe the lams were inkjet produced and the glasser may be thinking that the resin will soak through and not be a problem. I don’t recommend that.
On a round pin, one cut will do. Three at most. The more you cut, the more you have to grind down. And that makes you more itchy. And being itchy sucks. As far as laying the cloth flat, I just lightly tug at the ends slightly downward.
When watching a vid, pay attention to what resin is used. The added cost of epoxy over poly will make a person think differently about their approach. At $68.00 a gallon, I’m willing to do more work and put up with more trouble to skimp on some resin. I think Resin Reseach upped their price recently too.
In reading Greg Loehr’s and other’s posts about epoxy and its contamination issues in the archives (and watching him glass a couple of times), as for handling cloth, I try not to touch it with my greasy little nubs. As the last gallon of RR cost me a hectobuck, I’m also pretty skimpy with the stuff.
I know poly is different, but if you think about it, this guy’s method is most likely from watching people glass, so who did he learn from, as someone else asked. Does a poly lamination suffer with bits of finger oil and dirt? I don’t know. Obviously not enough to matter as that is how people have done it for so long. I don’t massage the cloth down on my boards. I’m not knocking the guy. He’s done it more than I have, and I only mess with epoxy.
I’m looking forward to seeing more.
If you want a video get the dvd with Cleanlines in it. Master Glassing by Damascus. Buy it, learn right, pay the money… or continue to watch novice youtubes, and take your chances. There are many short cuts that are hard to explained (, or even picked up on a vid, you just have to do it, everybody has there little tricks.
All the answers are right here in the swaylock archives.
(no you don’t need all those relief cuts, it’s waste of time and creates more bumps in the lap tht will need to be grinded down before the hotcoat. All you need is a few cuts at the corners.)
Maybe I’ll epoxy video camera to a football helmet and shoot my own vid…I can see it now, 3M mask, Goggles, Gloves, Jumpsuit, Football Helmet.
…hello Keen
is like the other guys said
and if you start the learning curve in that way, when you do a tint is a nightmare…
why most say that thats not a good technique?
cause most of us started from “scratch”, with trials & errors type of “method”
ok if you want to do that way…go ahead
but to learn more is better to start from the begining
here re most of the stuff
but man, a bit of work for your side is ok too
A tinted resin lamination with that many cuts would be very funny to look at when finished. So would a volan lamination… That’s why those of us who learnt glassing when only volan was available developped a technique where the lesser cuts, the better…
As far as the video of the fin glass-on guy is concerned, I’ll just tell you that: the guy is Gérard DUVAL, he owns “SLIDE SURFBOARDS” in Tarnos, France, and he has been doing it since the early seventies. Not doing it the way YOU would do it? So what? You should see his boards… And I’m not even good friend with him…
Cool video.
To recap:
-darts on the rails?
-no resin under lams?
-failed to saturate entire lap with one pass?
-two different versions of the same Jack Johnson song back to back?
-no respirator / rubber gloves on dog?
Cool video.
To recap:
-darts on the rails?
-no resin under lams?
-failed to saturate entire lap with one pass?
-two different versions of the same Jack Johnson song back to back?
-no respirator / rubber gloves on dog?
bare hands on the glass
resin on the floor
too thick a squeegee to have fine control on the laps
poured too much resin in the center & let it pool too long, instead of pouring thin strips & immediately chasing them with the squeegee
pressed hard when he did go through the pools & probably made bubbles
…
Hey ErikG,
I am still not a very economical glasser, but I consider myself competent enough not to screw up all the time. I use the EPS/Epoxy Primer’s guidelines for epoxy amounts, but with one change, if it says use 20 oz total, I use 20 oz resin, and then add hardener. You use more, but never run out, and after a while, you use less and less as you get experience. As for wetting out the laps, Here’s some things that I have tried, and all work…
Pour thin lines of resin over the board following with the spreader, like Benny1 said, and then pour a larger bead of resin near the rail, a section at a time, so not a lot drips off the board before you get to it… Now, lifting the glass with your non-squeegee hand, pull the resin from your poured bead onto the laps gently, to not cause as many bubbles/frothiness. Unfortunately, every time I have done it this way, I do get some frothiness in the laps in some areas. Looks REAL bad when glassing over color, but not noticeable on a white blank. You end up using a bit more resin than the other methods, but it is the fastest way I do it, and you only mix one batch of epoxy.
Use a roller. After you pour and spread on the flats, let that stuff soak in while you have a little roller tray worth of epoxy (either from the same mix, or have the 2 parts measured out ready to go for the roller tray, mix and get working with the roller), and saturate the roller well, and get to work rolling the laps. The super plus to this is less bubbles than the above method, and the roller doesn’t pull ‘strings’ out of the fabric that you have to cut (if you have time) or just flatten them onto the other side of the board with the squeegee. Downside is it is impossible to pull the lam tight like you can with a squeegee, so in order to do that, you have to go back after rolling and pull the lam tight and get the excess epoxy off, as the roller sometimes puts down more resin than I would like, but that is probably operator error.
Use a brush. Again, get the resin spread out on the flats with a squeegee, and mix up another batch, this time instead of rolling, you hold up the glass with your hand like #1, but brush the resin onto the laps, so they don’t get tucked when you saturate them. Least amount of bubbles (for me, at least), especially if you brush with warmed resin, it really soaks in quick. One go around the board brushing, and pick up your squeegee to tuck the laps and pull them tight. I pull almost to the edge of the glass on the lap, and then get a throwaway roller (like 3" wide) to tack the very edges of the lap down (Thanks for the idea, Bud!), like #2. This makes grinding/sanding/surforming the lap a breeze, no strings to take down, and it looks almost like a cutlap! The downside is more consumables. instead of just a squeegee, or a squeegee and a roller, you use a squeegee, a roller and a brush, along with the containers you mixed the 2 batches in. But the extra 2-3 bucks for me is worth it when you get a great, tight, bubble and froth free lam, especially over the graphics that took some time to do…
If anyone knows of a better way, please post… I arrived at these methods by reading the archives (sorry if I haven’t credited the right people) and trial and error, but there is always someone out there who knows more…
JSS
…the way I do is the standard way
you can say f+++ standard way
yes, but you need a better way
and the guy dont have a better way than the “industry standard”
for ex.: too much time in every step with the brush (time is money in production, time for surfing too) why?
too much resin in the fillet (cracks in the future) why?
the way he put the rope (waste of time and difficult to get rid of bubbles) why do that?
paint with resin a big area why? there s no need to do that
poor fin foiling
etc
sorry Balsa if I offended you
sorry Balsa if I offended you
No offense, Reverb. I’m not the one concerned. I just wanted to point out that the guy is no beginner. Many people started without any help from industry masters in those times (me included) and you may start with bad habits if no one ever told you how to do it. It took me some 300 boards before I was shown how to use a planer like it should be used. Younger guys have it quite easy today, with good materials commonly available and any advice you could need also available here or elsewhere. Some people just developped their own way to do things. I admit that they might be wrong…
Many of you claim to know something about this. I certainly do. Let’s help those w/less experience and no or inferior teachers. Just post a laminating vid and kill the tide of useless verbage. Watching all the vids, we can take the best bits of everyone’s approach and improve tremendously without enduring all the blather, which does little to help anyone here become a better laminator. Or did I miss the point of swaylocks? Sirwanks is coming by Thursday with his camcorder and says he’ll get it posted up pronto. I’m going first. It’s time to shut it and post em. Maybe other, “technique video threads” to follow? Oh, the synergy!!!
Bambam808 if I had a cam, I’d shoot though I don’t know editing.
Been meaning to come by for a epoxy session sometime anyway. Finished off that last board you sold me the poly for… still have a gallon and a half in the can. Need to get some foam, but as you might have read I look forward to HWS at this time… maybe you could poxy a layer or two on that?
will phone sometime later this week… if you’re pushing resin this weekend, the timing would be good for me. The wifely unit and kids are 4,000-odd miles away.