Best Router for the Job??

Hey all -

I’m new to the forum and I have just started my own side business refurbishing surfboards.  I provide good affordable refurbished boards to working-class people and kids, that just cannot afford the cost of a new board.  I strive to keep them at the lowest cost possible.  I know around my area, the economy is bunk and more and more of us are struggling to stay in the water…especially after thrashing their board(s).  

Anywase, I was wondering what recommendations you all might have regading an all-around good router for surfboard repair.  I have been using an older dremal with the attachment, but for larger circular clean cuts, this just doesn’t cut it.  It’s not easy to control and I have been becoming more irritated as time goes on and as my repairs become more intensive.  

I am open to all suggestions and would be stoked to find something that works better.

Cheers!

WS

I like my Bosch Colt

I’ve got both Ryobis (corded and cordless) and they are quite the thing IMHO:

balsa

what are the type nrs for both these routers?

cheers

Good and cheap: Chicago palm router from Harbor Freight $25. If it breaks they replace it. I have several for backup when one goes out. Great for FCS Fusion, Pro Box, Future installations. Powerful enough for smaller center stringers. Easy to use.

You’ll want a bigger router for heavy center stringers. Craftsman, Bosch, Milwaukee. Porter Cable, or any of the reputable brands. You would definitely need one of these if you are using bits with bigger than 1/4" shank. The Surf Source offers a “Pencil Router Bit” using tungsten carbide super grit that cuts stringers w/o splintering wood, unfortunately it is on a 1/2" shaft and I doubt it will fit most palm router aka laminate trimmers. They should make the shaft smaller.

If you can’t fix it, get a bigger hammer.

[quote="$1"]

Hey all -

I'm new to the forum and I have just started my own side business refurbishing surfboards.  I provide good affordable refurbished boards to working-class people and kids, that just cannot afford the cost of a new board.  I strive to keep them at the lowest cost possible.  I know around my area, the economy is bunk and more and more of us are struggling to stay in the water....especially after thrashing their board(s).  

[/quote]

Good for you! Our sport/hobby/way of life has gotten far too expensive and anything that heps kids and regular folks get into it and stay with it is a very decent thing for you to be doing. Anyways......

[quote="$1"]

Anywase, I was wondering what recommendations you all might have regading an all-around good router for surfboard repair.  I have been using an older dremal with the attachment, but for larger circular clean cuts, this just doesn't cut it.  It's not easy to control and I have been becoming more irritated as time goes on and as my repairs become more intensive.  

I am open to all suggestions and would be stoked to find something that works better.

Cheers!

WS

[/quote]

Uhmmmm- I'm not a big fan of dremels, but they do have their place, I guess. The thing I'd ask first is what you're gonna be doing with a router. I haven't used one much for repairs, you see, unless I'm swapping out a busted Fins Unlimited type center fin box or something like that. And in truth, a Dremel or one of those Roto-Zip bits would do as good a job, maybe better. Just send it in and work right along the edge of the old box and there you are.

The rest of the time, I use a hole saw of appropriate size or a Forstner bit, if what I'm doing involves leash plugs or FCS plugs. The Forstner is good for putting in new leash plugs while the right sized hole saw ( about 1 1/8", if I recall right) will go right down the outside of a ruined FCS or leash plug and you just pop it out with a big screwdriver used appropriately.

What some people do, it seems, is to attack dings with a router, then use that routed cavity as a nice way of just putting in new foam. You can call me old-school, but I avoid that like the plague. There's a very few that can do that well and get away with it and I'm a long way from being one of 'em. Too often, the new foam block isn't a great fit and the resin/filler and such that's put in to make it work turns out to be a nightmare by the time it's all said and done. Sanding alone, new soft foam alongside the hard cabosil/resin mix, that gets ugly.

Anyhow- keep up the good work. Hope that was of use

doc...

Anyhow

I have a few routers:

2 x Hitachi 3 1/4 HP (Wood Working)

Porter Cable 690 (Stringer Clean up) After gluing up blanks

Dewalt Trim Router (Still New in the Box) 5 years old

Royobi Trim Router (Favorite just like Balsas) For cutting outlines with a bushing guide and for installing fin boxes

DeadShaper mention the Harbor Freight routers. For the money it's a good place to start and a big jump from a Dremel. You can make jigs to make them do what you want.

Once you get the router down you will be hooked. Great tool whatever you decide. Now I need to get one of those cordless like Balsa.

He has some tool collection!

Surfding

WaveSniper, I like the Trend Router from England, but that cordless looks pretty cool to me also.



Classy tool!

Looks like mine is not produced anymore but this one looks pretty much the same except with a square base plate:

http://www.ryobitools.com/catalog/18v_oneplus/router_rotary/P600#

The cordless ryobi looks to be a great tool to have in your arsenal!

I know that if I get one everyone will want to use it!

I have a bunch of different routers, as I like to set them up for one task and leave them that way once they are tweaked “just so”…that being said my favorites are the ones with vacuum hookups, because its nice to not make a mess, and to be able to see what you are doing.  The Dewalt DW621 is a beefy 2hp and nice for big wood stringer/fin box cuts.  I also have an older Craftsman with vacuum setup, not a model that’s made any more.  The laminate trimmers are nice and light, handy for things like taking fin boxes down flush with the board… but be careful, its tempting to “one hand” them and the bit is right out in the open, no big base plate. 

I’m with Doc though… I don’t tend to use a router for ding repair, unless a fin box is cracked in half or something like that… spend your money on a nice sander, like a FESTOOL!!!

I'm with Keith on router selection and use. My own router stable includes

A Porter Cable #7310 laminate trimmer. Does a great job on Formica-laminate type  surfaces, which is what it's made for. I have also been known to put a small roundover bit or rabbeting bit in it, but as Keith says, there's damned little protection from the base. I worked with a guy who was shy half a finger, 'cos he had too much bit in a laminate trimmer.

As an aside, saws cut things off and they may be re-attached. But tools with rapidly rotating cutters turn body parts to vapor and how much they cut isn't really controllable. Thus, using shapers and routers and the like are something to be extra-careful with.

Next is a Porter Cable Model 100. Now discontinued, they made it for a long time and there's lots of 'em out there used. This particular router has a dovetail bit in it and it's dedicated to use with a nice big old Porter Cable Omnijig dovetailing jig. Nice tool combo.

And then there's the Model 693, which is a plunge router. I've used it for chewing out old finboxes, making quick and dirty mortises and similar. In truth, I don't have a whole lot of need for anything bigger, as it seems to do everything I need up to timber framing work.

It used to be that you could get umpteen different gizmos that you could put on an electric drill and the 'home handyman' could in theory do all sorts of stuff without having to buy a real tool. Now it seems like there's a zillion things out there that a router is supposed to be able to do, if you buy the accessory. Router tables as replacements for a spindle shaper, for instance. Me, I'd tend to steer clear of 'em.....

doc...

Agreed. I use a dremel for carefully removing shattered glass so I can styrene and replace the fractured cloth while not hitting sprayed colored foam. You can make a board look like whities never happened that way. No way would I use a router for that. However, as mentioned here, it’s reasonable if not nearly a necessity to have a good router to replace fin boxes.

The Chicago is fine for routing in foam for fin system cassettes (yes, hole saws/forsteners for plugs), but serious lumber demands a a bit more.

All this tool talk would get Tim Taylor from “Tool Time” hot! LOL…

Thanks for all the recommendations!!  So many, I am over-whelmed.  This site rocks!  I did some research on the cordless Ryobi…looks like a great router to add to my small “shop”.  Now, just have to get all the funds together.  I think it’s perfect for what I need.   

I used to go the Harbor Freight route when I worked construction years back, but in all honesty, I wasted so much money and time on their products.  I had a compressor from Harbor Freight that blew up after two weeks…your supposed to put kerosene in it, right???  Their products are affordable, but I get angry when working on a job and my tools break…especially when time is money.  I don’t know, each to his own, I reckon.  

doc - thanks for the props on the business.  I’m trying hard to get up and running at full capicity.  Has been hard with working a stressful day job and then finding time to work on boards.  I’m wipped out by the time I get home, but I love working on boards and providing them to people.  Especially the kids.  It’s awesome watching them get so stoked paddling out on a “new” board!

WS          

[quote="$1"]

doc - thanks for the props on the business.  I'm trying hard to get up and running at full capicity.  Has been hard with working a stressful day job and then finding time to work on boards.  I'm wipped out by the time I get home, but I love working on boards and providing them to people.  Especially the kids.  It's awesome watching them get so stoked paddling out on a "new" board!

WS          

[/quote]

De nada, man. Keep up the good work.

Now, having been in pretty much the same situation, doing dings and etc after a blue collar kind of day, I might have a coupla suggestions that'd help. And please don't take any offense at anything I suggest that's blindingly obvious to you and that you've been doing for years, as ...wayull, everybody's different, y'know? Came up in the trades different, and worked for people with different priorities.

And I was in the ding business for a while, including keeping a rental board fleet in commission. So, I kinda feel your pain, y'know? Too much to do and too little time to do it in, when what I really wanted was several cold beers and a soft chair.

Oh, and anybody else that's reading this and wants to start doing dings for fun and profit, here's some tips and tricks.

First off, build a bunch of quick-and-dirty ding stands out of 2x scrap and other scrap. With a few bungees or straps so they can function as sanding stands too. The idea is that then you can do mass production rather than one-at-a-time, so you get the most results out of what time you're spending at it. Don't bother trying to make those Y-shaped stands that'll hold boards on edge or flat, make simple ones that will do one or the other.

Resin- I used to do up a good sized batch of clear resin, catalysed slow, real slow. I'd have things set up so that I'd have a bunch of dings on a bunch of boards ready to go, masked off and cloth taped on as need be. Have at it, using the resin as gloss on what needed glossing,  hotcoat on what needed hotcoats, then for laminating cloth, then mix in filler and do that. All from one batch. Use a 1" bristle chip brush for the laminating in addition to the hotcoating and glossing, it's quick for smaller jobs, faster than a squeegee and you don't have to clean it afterwards. And this way, you use less resin and spend less time mixing and so on.

Sanding - again, you want to line things up so you fire up your sander and just head down the line. I'd have a couple of sanders, a 5" Porter Cable random orbit (the 5" version of this one: http://www.deltaportercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=11081)  and a big Milwaukee sander-grinder ( this beauty here: http://www.milwaukeetool.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductId=6078&CategoryName=SC%3a++7+and+9+in.+Sanders ), both variable speed. Maybe 100 grit on the random orbit, 80 or so on the big 'un with a soft backing pad.

Once you've spent some time with the big sander, you can do surprisingly small and finicky work with it. And it's fast and it does a good job. And when you've done with the sanding, a quick whack with wet sandpaper ( and a squeeze bottle of water in your other hand) gets it ready for polishing, which the big Milwaukee sander does very well too. I found that if you're gonna polish at all, use a fairly aggressive polishing compound or else you'll be there all night.

If, by some chance, you have a big compressor, you might want to play with smallish air sanders and wet sandpaper. I experimented some, it worked, but not really well enough to justify it on the scale I was doing it at. I found that hand sanding with wet sandpaper worked as well and was at least as fast. I wouldn't wet sand any finer than 400 grit, and coarser (200-something)  will do okay, especially if you hit it with aggressive polish after.

Forget sanding blocks. You'll do a better job by hand alone.

Color - I basically gave up on trying to match colors. Takes a lot of time and it never comes out right. Instead, almost all color these days is airbrushed onto the foam, so it'll be on that foam that sticks to the busted glass in a ding. So you save as much of that as you can and fill behind it and glass over with clear resin. The small 'cracks' of filler that'll be visible are, to my mind, more acceptable than a patch of color that doesn't match. Oh, an X-Acto knife, looks like a scalpel, those are really good for doing that kind of work. It's kinda finicky stuff, but in the long run it's faster than trying to match colors and so on.

If it's a little convex after filling, that's fine, the cloth you put over it will make up for that.

Filler: Cabosil and resin is fine, mask/cofferdam/mold it well to minimise sanding after. Mixing foam bits and using resin to stick it in is a nightmare. You have something pretty hard next to something quite soft, so while sanding the hard stuff you wind up taking gouges out of the foam or making dips and ya gotta fill those with cabosil/resin mix and the whole mess starts over again.

I got out of production ding work before the white Gorilla Glue came out, but I'd suggest playing with it some, as it goes off to a nice white foam that'll replace crunched foam. It sands very easy, it expands to fill little crevices and such,, it's good stuff. The foam it makes might be a little softer than the original foam- so what, you're gonna be glassing over it with more glass anyhow.

You see some people dealing with dings by taking a saw, cutting out a wedge of rail and then trying to put in a wedge of foam and shaping that, then glassing it and so on. Don't do it, or the similar routing out great chunks of foam that got dinged. It makes for a lot of work and it never comes out well, Likewise cutting away big pieces of glass or similar, try to keep as much as you can.

Delams - big ones, shine 'em on and don't take the job unless you're doing it for a customer with deep pockets. It's a long and difficult job, the foam under it is almost always compromised/screwed up somehow and things just go sour on you. Smaller ones, a wet cabosil mix behind the loose glas, worked in well into the edges and then clamped down somehow( try using scrap Formica sheet and web straps like a lightly applied strap clamp), that's as good as it gets. Glass heavy over 'em  .

Some useful tools to have:

Plastic putty knives - great for scraping off the wax and crud.

Rags - you can never have enough of 'em.

Popsicle sticks and tongue depressors - buy them as craft supplies, they're cheap.

1" chip brushes - I used to buy boxes of them from Harbor Freight, very cheap that way and you're not tempted to do something silly like using a bucks worth of acetone to clean a thirty cent brush. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4181

X-acto knife - http://www.xacto.com/Product/x3601 - works better and does more than razor blades. Touch up the blades with fine wet sandpaper and a flat surface rather than gumming up your good sharpening stone. Try to keep wet resin off it. The sharp point is very useful.

Tape- I used cheap masking tape, Ace Hardware store brand. The real good blue stuff is too pricy. http://www.staples.com/Scotch-Tape-Dispenser-3-Core-Putty/product_129825?cmArea=SEARCH ( look for one used) is handy for some uses.

Good scissors.

If you're working inside, a small shop vac with an 'uphostery brush' attachment is good, otherwise just brush off the dust onto the lawn.

Lots of wax paper cups. Office supply places are good for those, or supermarkets.

Cheap Vinyl gloves. Saves a lot of time cleaning up later and you don't have to resist the temptation to dab down that %$#@ sticking-up corner of cloth with a fingertip.

Wax paper and food wrap. The wax paper is good for some molding tricks, if it doesn't get folded, and some types of plastic wrap make a very nice quick mold around rail dings and such. But some kinds of plastic wrap are styrene-soluble, so that they turn to ugly glop when they contact resin.

'Mustard pumps', like you see sold with epoxies, are nice and quick for getting 'standard amounts' of resin out of gallon cans without a lot of mess and fussing. Though they'll eventually gum up and you'll need to replace 'em, they're fairly cheap if you shop around. Trick: push down until you feel resistance on that first pump, then a fingertip over the nozzle. let it come up and you get a 'full pump' of resin so you don't try to guess 'was that 4 1/2 pumps or just 4-and-a-little?'.

Likewise small syringes, the all-plastic ones, for catalyst. Takes the guesswork out of it, 'cos I always lost count of the drops.

The one thing I did try to more or less color match was sun-browned foam on older boards. The trick there is use a little instant coffee dissolved in acetone as a tint.

And I've blathered on at length, too long, probably....

hope that's of use

doc....

 

“hope that’s of use”???

Here’s a gold mine of ding repair info, but in a thread on routers.

This should be in the “best of” archives with a big red arrow pointing to it  “DING DING DING REPAIR INFO!!”

 

 

Nawwww - if I was really trying to make a 'gold mine' I woulda done a better job of spelling and definitely organized it better.  It's a marvel, really, that I managed to spell 'scissors' right. But overall, just the tricks I picked up doing dings for....too damn long....and trying to do it efficiently enough that I could make a decent hourly rate doing it instead of, say, going back to being a bouncer at night. With an entirely different set of perks.  

And Wavesniper, there, he's doing something I very much approve of, so anything I can do to help with it in what's essentially his thread, it's a good thing too. Rather than putting it off by itself someplace.

But if somebody wants to stow it someplace where it might be useful, by all means, have at it....

Hope this is of some use too......

doc....

anyone know where i can get one of the routers balsa put up from preferably the battery one.

ive been trying for a while, but mostly only us shops have them and either wont post to europe or charge more than the tool costs to ship it.

In the UK

Do you mean like this one?

http://www.dynatools.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=ry-trim

I have also seen them on Ebay a few times