big guy looking to go shorter wider on my new daily driver

General Discussion
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Yep. The amount of information here is almost bewildering - especially if you haven't ventured much beyond the generic shortboard or longboard designs that the surf industry offers to its customers.

The wealth and scope of surfboard design and construction knowledge contained here really is a credit to the creator Mike Paler and everyone else who is involved and contributes. Many very experienced and very talented people here generously share what they know with anyone who has the interest to ask.

Sounds like you friend in Cali might be riding a mini Simmons style of board. These are starting to appear all over the place now and I first saw them discussed here on Swaylocks almost 3 years ago now.

Cheers

Rohan

 

122

mmm, sort of. much narrower tail. thruster fin set up. made by RAT.  the mini simmons sure has caught on, see it discussed everywhere. its got me very curious! i think boards across the shortboard spectrum have gained foam. even some of the guys on tour have been riding thicker, wider boards.

so how was the bells contest this year mate? didya make it down for a look? shit they caught winkipop and the bowl really good hey? parko was schralping! bummed kelly was eliminated but i actually picked joel to win it and he did, much to the shigrin of my buds who all had their $ on others!

~~Ahui'hou!

123

I surfed down that way over the Easter break but didn't make it to the contest to watch it live.

I watched some of it on TV and thought Parko was the obvious standout.

Bells can be a tricky wave to read and surf. Parko never seemed to have to make the little adjustments that almost everyone else did. He seemed to flow from one full constant radius turn into the next full constant radius turn. This is really difficult to do at Bells and shows how well he chose his waves and how well he read each one as he surfed.

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Tbalnk I only new Junior in a superficial way. He was cool with me and would share waves. Never got in deep conversation with him. Smile and hoot him on waves and he was happy. He loved to surf and it seemed that he was always surfing. I saw him almost everyday for a few months over the Winter months and in Town during the summer.

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i agree with reverb about the rocket kinda planeshape. and if your fatter or older or lazier then you can go wider, boofy on the rails and move the widepoint forward . the trick is in the low entry and good amount of tail rocker. i warn against going too wide in the tail as the waves get solid as it will be detrimental to sharp radius turns.  these boards work best with pulled tails and rounded pins and look a bit strange but work well and a deep single concave.  the more boofy you get with the design the more it alters your surfing style and the shorter you need to go with the board, as long boofy boards are not suited to small radius turns (HP?)  a thick boofy board works best at surfer hight or less as you have more leverage off the front foot and your stance relative to rocker entry allows you to gain speed from trim off the front foot and you can switch weight to the tail  for vert style surfing without altering your stance position.  rocket type template with thinner rails is surfed differently (rail drive s turns) and can be a bit longer and more nose entry. however as you go wider and thicker you need to think like a fish and go shorter

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[quote="$1"]

i agree with reverb about the rocket kinda planeshape. and if your fatter or older or lazier then you can go wider, boofy on the rails and move the widepoint forward . the trick is in the low entry and good amount of tail rocker. i warn against going too wide in the tail as the waves get solid as it will be detrimental to sharp radius turns.  these boards work best with pulled tails and rounded pins and look a bit strange but work well and a deep single concave.  the more boofy you get with the design the more it alters your surfing style and the shorter you need to go with the board, as long boofy boards are not suited to small radius turns (HP?)  a thick boofy board works best at surfer hight or less as you have more leverage off the front foot and your stance relative to rocker entry allows you to gain speed from trim off the front foot and you can switch weight to the tail  for vert style surfing without altering your stance position.  rocket type template with thinner rails is surfed differently (rail drive s turns) and can be a bit longer and more nose entry. however as you go wider and thicker you need to think like a fish and go shorter

[/quote]

eh thanks paul! first off, boofy is what? like meaty? thick? not sure but i think thats what u meant? and so your suggesting that i go much shorter, like my height if im gonna go wider? so 6'4"X24"X3 3/8"? approx.?

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Makakilo, did you ever approach your shaper about your new board? Just curious as to what he recommends for you. Personally, I feel like you're thinking too wide for the type of surfing you want to do. I'm 51, 6-0 x 200 lbs, and my "shortboard" I've been riding is a 6-2 that's 20" wide at center and a little over 2.5" thick. You look really fit, so the extra width is likely going to be overkill for you. That said, it's always fun to experiment.

This board is 6-6, 20.5-21" wide (can't remember for sure),  the guy pictured is about 6-2 x 240 lbs and rips. EPS with perimeter stringers.

[IMG]http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr335/asurfrat/DSC02248.jpg[/IMG]

Just something else to consider in your quest for the perfect fit.

Good luck!

128

BTW, was reading this thread and someone mentioned Junior Boy. For a time back in the 80's, the Willis Bro's were shaping his and his brother's boards. Are the Willises still around, or did they move to the mainland?

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yeah, he said the same thing. hes my height but like 45 lbs lighter and rides small boards. thats crazy that you ride a 6'2" bro. i feel kookish. im 6'4" 250. currently riding a 7'0" 22" wide 3" thick with full rails. love the way it paddles but hate the way it surfs. but i can throw that thing into some turns but i feel like the boxy rails are the biggest impediment, impossible to bury the rail at speed so it feels super stiff. yet sideslipping in critical, steep sections. my thought was to go 5" or 6" shorter, 2" wider and 3/8" thicker but dome the deck so the rails are pulled in. do you think thats a bad idea? keep in mind i am 25% heavier than you!

anyway i have heard the same thing that youve said from several other people bro, gonna have to rethink this whole thing. thinkin about shaping it myself, that way i can get couple blanks and so can ride the first one then go back and shape the second based on how that goes. and if the first goes good i can make a fish out of the other blank.

130

boofy = labrador

yeah meatier rails up to about a radius of an inch.

the volume only needs to be where you need it under the chest

so i would be looking at 6 4 or 65 about 3 inches thick but thin out the tail, and flip the tail rocker and pull the outline to no more than 14 and 1/2 in the tail anything over that and it will track in big surf. 14 is a good tail width

dont thin out the nose and take all the foam off the bottom of the board and use a kneeboard blank they are about 3 and half thick. you can skin 2mm off the deck and shape out your foil from the bottom .

22 is fine for width or roy and bert burger tells me 23 is perfectly fine with the right rocker and planeshape. 24 mite be pushing it

you will get your volume in the rail (not doming the deck)and by leaving the deck foil flat up to the 12 inch from the nose. just leave heaps of meat up there in the front like a retro fish

the rocket type plane shape has its wide point pretty close to center. well you can take it up as far as 2 inches forward and it moves your volume forward and enables front foot surfing and trim and easy wave catching and barrel riding but reduces small radius turns so you get that back by flipping the tail and pulling the tail width.

you will find a balance there and one board wont do evrything but will suffice for a daily driver . when it gets big DOH to TOH then you have to redesign. this plane shape is up to head and half . and limited in solid waves that break top to bottom

when you design you modify your parameters wrt volume . that is the key point so there is no point going 4 inches thick if you can distribute an adequate volume out to the rail

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havent seen a willis bros board since like 1991-ish it seems like...

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[quote="$1"]

boofy = labrador

yeah meatier rails up to about a radius of an inch.

the volume only needs to be where you need it under the chest

so i would be looking at 6 4 or 65 about 3 inches thick but thin out the tail, and flip the tail rocker and pull the outline to no more than 14 and 1/2 in the tail anything over that and it will track in big surf. 14 is a good tail width

dont thin out the nose and take all the foam off the bottom of the board and use a kneeboard blank they are about 3 and half thick. you can skin 2mm off the deck and shape out your foil from the bottom .

22 is fine for width or roy and bert burger tells me 23 is perfectly fine with the right rocker and planeshape. 24 mite be pushing it

you will get your volume in the rail (not doming the deck)and by leaving the deck foil flat up to the 12 inch from the nose. just leave heaps of meat up there in the front like a retro fish

the rocket type plane shape has its wide point pretty close to center. well you can take it up as far as 2 inches forward and it moves your volume forward and enables front foot surfing and trim and easy wave catching and barrel riding but reduces small radius turns so you get that back by flipping the tail and pulling the tail width.

you will find a balance there and one board wont do evrything but will suffice for a daily driver . when it gets big DOH to TOH then you have to redesign. this plane shape is up to head and half . and limited in solid waves that break top to bottom

when you design you modify your parameters wrt volume . that is the key point so there is no point going 4 inches thick if you can distribute an adequate volume out to the rail

[/quote]

yeah shes strictly a 0'-4' board paul. ive got several pintails from 7'6" on up for bigger surf. really good information, mahalo! ill look in to kneeboard blanks. this will be my first  attempt at shaping anything larger than a paipo but i think i can do it. if not big deal. a learning experience!.gonna work on templates this week.

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id muck around wth the nose and wdidepoint on this a bit but this is the basic idea. rocker is spot on or more tail if you like up to 2 3/4 tail rocker.

if you want and volume and HP then you need to surf boards around your hight like we did in the 80s . these board do not facilitate grommet style rail to rail surfing

they trim and surf off the front foot and fins but you throw a shit load of spray and age gracefully i can do floater reos and hacks and the odd air at 40

134

you can play with nose width and widepoint to refine this basic shape. i have heaps opf variations

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much appreciated mate! truly!

Aloha!

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!

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Wooooow, I am sure that wave spit violently after that shot!!! Heavy, no doubt about it!!!

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[quote="$1"]

yeah, he said the same thing. hes my height but like 45 lbs lighter and rides small boards. thats crazy that you ride a 6'2" bro. i feel kookish. im 6'4" 250. currently riding a 7'0" 22" wide 3" thick with full rails. love the way it paddles but hate the way it surfs. but i can throw that thing into some turns but i feel like the boxy rails are the biggest impediment, impossible to bury the rail at speed so it feels super stiff. yet sideslipping in critical, steep sections. my thought was to go 5" or 6" shorter, 2" wider and 3/8" thicker but dome the deck so the rails are pulled in. do you think thats a bad idea? keep in mind i am 25% heavier than you!

anyway i have heard the same thing that youve said from several other people bro, gonna have to rethink this whole thing. thinkin about shaping it myself, that way i can get couple blanks and so can ride the first one then go back and shape the second based on how that goes. and if the first goes good i can make a fish out of the other blank.

[/quote]

Sounds like the boxy rails are your issue. I'd say go with your plan to dome it to give yourself some thinner rails. Shaping it yourself will be fun as well, especially if it works!

139

If your still looking at designs for that second blank. I’ll be back on Oahu in about three months you can check out some of my boards for Ideas. they range from 5’10" to 6’6" fishes and rounded pins they all have volume. A couple have domed decks the others have flat or slightly domed decks.

Aloha Hannya 

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g'day Makakilo

I hope you don't mind me butting in because I am not big, actually I'm little, but you have started a very interesting thread of general interest.

I have some questions which might help you or the other big guys with their advice. We know from the testimony of one of your comrades that you are very competent but we don't know how you want to surf these waves. You have been offered a variety of design ideas by the swaylocks members which favour different types of surfing.

You have already stated that it is for 0 - 4' (Hawaiian scale presumably). I've never been there, but would imagine the 1 or 2' Hawaiian that you have in mind can be fat (gently sloping), but not mushy (weak)? You will be surfing heavily textured (crosshore rippled waves) but not sloppy choppy, or you do want to handle this too?

Do you want to get close to the nimble/modern HP surfing? In which case you will want to resort to some quick rail to rail tactics to urge some extra speed out of the board in fat/slow sections. Will you want to resort to the slam the nose up and down tactic to get the board going when slowing? - ugly but effective and just about all the modern HPSB surfers on little boards do resort to this at times

Or do you want to do all your small/fat section surfing by using glide and for better sections on the wave surf only top to bottom with no double pumps?

You said that you didn't have much of an idea on bottom shape, but if you do want to use the rail to rail/double pump tactics then concave will help this. However in wide boards a double concave is better than a single concave and will handle chop and texture much better - the apex/stringer line of the double will cut through chop but the concave leading into the rails will give that rail to rail responsiveness at which the single concave excels - sort of get the best of both worlds. If handling powerful texture is a priority then a double concave set in a V will be even better at handling rough wave surfaces. The shaper of Strive surfboards in Santa Cruz CA told me that he has made Mavericks guns with a double concave.

In a HPSB the concave need not be deep to be effective - just 2 or 3 mm in a double makes a difference

If you do want to resort to the small wave tactic of slamming the nose up and down on a smallish (for your size) HPSB then a normal amount of rocker will help - I've noted that some of the offerings are very flat rocker and won't support this tactic so easily.

If you want to do the tight arc ripping then normal amounts of HPSB rocker will be better than the very flat rocker too.

Feraldave who posts here has a successful surfboard production business on the competetive Gold Coast and has worked out just how much volume an elite/pro surfer typically needs for their weight (0.35 multiplied by body weight in KG). So plugging in the numbers for your weight.

250 pounds = 113 kg

0.35 x 113 kg = 39.55 litres

You might be thinking that ah thats a pro formula and you are not pro, however I've heard it said on another forum by a blank CNC expert that big blokes frequently do use pro weight to volume ratios or even higher ratios. Looking at the ASP website of all the surfer profiles (including the women) does support this idea - the bigger the surfer the proportionally higher weight to surfboard size they generally ride.

so because you are bigger than the typical male pro then perfhaps a non-pro of your size could ride this ratio. Taking a somewhat random look at a modern example of a high volume HPSB Al Merricks measurements for the Flyer 1 are conveniently available, so thats why I'm choosing this - the closest one comes in at 45 litres which would have some volume to spare on the above calculation - its narrower than what you have in mind and probably looks more like a scaled up HPSB than what you have been sort of suggesting, although this board even in its 6' form is a bit wider and chunkier than a normal HPSB.

6' 8"

Nose 12", M 20.5" Tail width 15"

thickness 2.88 "

volume 45 L.

5.63 inches and tail rocker is 2.16 inches which means its a highish nose rocker and lowish tail rocker board - although the opposite type of rocker also works well but is different. I just thought you might like to know these numbers.

I don't have rocker measurements for this flyer 1, but I do have rocker measurements for the 6' 6" Flyer II, the nose is

I don't mean to try and tell you what you should be riding, just thought I'd throw a few numbers in as food for thought and as I mentioned this thread is very interesting so would enjoy reading your response on what the waves are like and how you want to ride them.

It could be that you get a strong feeling that such a board as described is not big enough despite crunching the numbers?

Like has already been said, thin/normal rails with a domed deck and thick along the stringer line is a good way of getting extra volume without rail corkyness - although I am small I have ridden boards with this combination of features.

 

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