I saw this photo a while ago and it has popped up again on Facebook. The bottom design has me intrigued. Wanted to ask a few of the people around in the late 60s early 70s that had this kind of bottom and rails what they liked or disliked about it. I have my opinions based on a few boards I’ve made about 7 or 8 years ago.
What I like is the combination of the flat section and how they flow into those pinched rails. The few I’ve done with pinched rails like this didn’t have the same flat bottom.
I was always of the opinion that it takes a certain amount of planing surface to get a board to work properly and that the shorter the board, the more efficient that surface needed to be. Along that same line of thought… the heavier the rider and the slower breaking the wave also required either a larger planing surface or a more efficient planing surface. My personal experiences with some of the transition boards (rounded bottoms) were that they were not nearly as fast or ‘skatey’ as more modern shortboards with more efficient bottoms. That said, some longboards with enough surface area didn’t have to have such efficiencies built in - the overall surface area made up the difference.
The shadow on the near side rail indicates that the bottom isn’t that flat out on the rail line. Looks like it has some upward roll to it. During this period things were still being worked out and many more modern outlines still used bottom and rail contours carried over from longboards. It would not surprise me if that board also had a pretty extreme S deck.
About that time I had a 6’8" Surfboards Hawaii roundtail that had a fair bit of belly up front and upturned forward rails. The bottom was real flat through the rear third with a hard down rail. The board was damn good. But, the trend went for sub 6 foot boards and soon after I made the mistake of trading it in for a Weber Pig (5’8). Possibly the worst board I ever owned.
Here’s the reason I’m interested in the bottom/rails… Joel Tudor 's 6-6 has similar rails up front. Looks like double concave and modern rails out the back, but could be pinched all the way.
Here’s the full video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9UKYHU03KQ
yep sir - ee
made a seven one and lent it to pat o’keefe
dor a trip to kauai to surf pakala spring>summer 1968
he burried it on the beach so he didn’t have to carry it out to waimea.
it wasn’t there when he came back in the morning
or he just forgot where he burried it…
I never saw it again,I still have a deep believed fantasy that I will see it again.
the best board I had made to that date ,every board after that was less after .
the bank in the turn was free on the glide .
The other film to watch is j.hackman in cosmic children I think
he lays the board all the way over on the rail with impunity.surfing credible size sunset…
now as to the flat that became important by late 69-70 + the flat obsession gained steam
especially after cabell rode the grey ghost and caught the collective attention going flat out fast.
Diff in an artickkle sait the flat bottoms the only thing that held em in the water was the fin…
now back to up rails in the nose ,refer to clark greg liddle and the displacement hull research
put out a call for Kirk Putnam he should have an archive of samples.
in action videos check the you tube for jimmy Gamboa…
in the joel tudor vid he seems to get better with each wave
in the sequence of waves .editing perhaps but thes ‘‘Hulls’’ are at first quite
almost squirly,but they have a high angle holding moment.pinched rails?
o.k. but the inside tip is keep em round just make em smaller…
the up rails forward can push water when you try to tip ride
Tail riding Man-you-veer ing is AOK but you gotta time your turn
as there is somewhat of a delay on fore and then cut back.the bank off the white water
the round bottom holds well in the airated - ness.single fin and FLEXY is the call
over finned makes it gagg.‘’
…ambrose…
micro tweeks make a diffrence
but subtle is the RX.
Brother Brose, that’s zactly what I was hoping for, some real data. Love you man, you are one in a million.
Kaina scary that I can unnerstan your words.
Hope Waipouli is getting good surf.
HULLYGULLY…This is the rabbit hole I stepped into. I really like it. For me I did not like the flexy fin way up thing. Could not get the rail turn I wanted. Everything that the new experts say will not work…This one is 8’8"…I have made em 6’, 6’6" and 7’6". Slinky smooth fast and yes they turn. Also a couple different outlines same bottom contours…The pointy nose one is 8’ the other is 6’6".
Ah yes, The new experts! I just read about Quad Fins, and how they are not hampered by the drag created by the center fin of a Thruster. This ‘‘expert’’ was running his mouth on an elaborate surfing advice site. A great example of ‘‘HUTAS.’’ (head up the ass syndrom)
Thanks Ace! I saw your posts of that design when you first put them up.
Bill, there are HUTAS everywhere.
To bad more are not adding to this. I have found that rail shape rocker tweeks and bottom contours have way more influence than funny outlines on how a surfboard performs. Part of the fun in making surfboards especially your own boards is being able to explore different concepts and how they feel.
Read, and heed.
So how do those boards turn, off the tail or rail to rail?
From the beginning I did want to contribute to this thread, especially with the pictures posted, but felt it better to let others with more experience speak first. Because I’m just a backyarder, and I have posted my board many times before, and I know some people get tired of hearing about it again. I usually try to get a mention in when the subject of “belly” or “pinched rails” comes up.
The board I made for myself six years ago is 8’ 4", 21" wide, and 2 7/8" thick. It has turned up pinched (thin) rails in the front 2/3, distinct “roll” or “belly” in the front 1/3, and it transitions to a more standard down rail in the very back. I have been ridiculed for the “1970’s rails” on the board, but it is a lot of fun to ride. It has pretty low rocker, and is an easy paddler. It has a very distinct feel to it, it feels very positive, almost like its bonded to the wave. And despite the shape, it trims very well in steep waves from up on the nose.
I love this board, and its one of the very few boards that I’ve actually had people paddle up and ask about just from watching it being surfed.
I would surf it more if I didn’t keep making so doggone many other shapes, and since my osteoarthritis in my left hip, I have pretty much gone to riding 9 footers. But i have a new prosthetic hip, and I should be clear to get back in the water in not too many weeks, so getting back out on it is gonna be on my priority list! In fact I have some new fins to try with it, once I start surfing again.
I would love to try that Hully Gully out, would love to buy one in fact, but since I have too many self-made boards already, and more on the way, I have to exercise self control, but it looks fun to me.
My newer boards have similar bottom rails up front that Joel Tudor’s board shows. I’ve found that to be very forgiving. I’ve also found a double concave out the back feels better than a single concave.
There’s a couple that surfs where I surf often and they have several Skip Frye boards. Skip has quite a wild bottom design that combines concaves with slightly rolled up edges on the rail. Tom Wegener has been pursuing the concave and slightly rolled edge with his Alaias and now short singles.
I made a short quad around 2006 with a concave bottom and slightly rolled up edges at the rail. That board was a lot of fun, but my daughter belonged to a surf club and they were doing a fund raiser, so I let her donate that board.
Here’s the only photo I have of that one. It was my interpretation of the Stretch FF4, compsand with Cherry weed veneer and balsa rails.
