i need a little advice from anyone who deals there boards to shops…what is the typical markup that a shop will put on the price of the board…%20, %30??? thanks ya’ll
Hey
You’re still off base. Try a little less. Clothing and wetsuit sales make the shop profits, boards don’t come close and almost, but not quite, qualify as “loss leaders”.
Don’t forget shipping, colors, time on the shelf, to the equation.
%10??
teddy,
most stores mark my board up 25$ or 50$, depending on the size and how much money they paid for it. as for percentages i have no idea.
That’s pretty typical - $25-$50 US markup, after all shipping, options and so on on all sizes of boards. That’s under 10%. By way of contrast, in my shop wax is typically 25% profit after shipping, leashes and similar are 75-100% after shipping, t-shirts and so on are closer to 100%.
Now, if there are no shipping dings, if there are no factory defects , the guy who runs the shop still winds up throwing in wax, sometimes a t-shirt or leash, and a board is basicly a break-even item if you’re lucky.
If one board gets dinged in shipment, then you wind up eating a $50-$100 discount plus whatever it cost ya to have it fixed. Best thing is to open every board box before accepting it from the shipper…but nobody catches all of 'em. And if you try to make a claim after you accepted them, forget it.
One board dinged in shipment = a loss for the entire shipment of 6-12 boards
Factory defects: messed up airbrush, bad fins, no fins shipped with the boards, bad glassing or polishing, blems, etc…
One bad board in a shipment means you will wind up either sitting on the shipment until you discount 'em ( at a loss ) to get something back for the money you laid out or spending time you haven’t got screaming at the board makers via phone or whatever…and ya still wind up discounting them and taking a loss.
Oh, and I paid up front for those boards, not on delivery, so they got shipped late anyhow.
It gets better…
You get a local guy, makes a pretty good board, and you want to carry 'em. All well and good, except…
He sells them to you for a certain price. You figure 'Cool, I have boards locally, I don’t have to spend my days on toll calls and hassles and so on and so on, he’ll stand behind 'em, I can sell for less 'cos I’m not paying shipping from the Other Coast" …except…
He still is selling them out his back door to his buddies, at what he charges you for boards or less than he charges you, 'cos they are his buddies,y’know?? Who is getting screwed? Ah huh.
And then there are the Chinese boards. They retail in a big chain store for less than I pay for a US made board, even from the cheapest local shaper who turns out garbage. And then there are the Surfdrecks and Bics which are a better markup and while they are corporate swine I can at least get a little responsibility out of 'em. Bad boards get replaced, that sort of thing.
You know what? I don’t carry new boards any more.
I can make more on a $200 used board than I can on a new one with none of the problems I have with a new board. I’m talking about buying it for $150 and selling it for $200 - better money, way better percentage and I don’t have to throw in wax and leash and perpetual care like it was a cemetary plot at Forest Lawn.
A used board is imperfect to begin with, so I don’t catch the grief I get if there is a tiny blemish on it. Caveat Emptor or “If you don’t see the problems it has, don’t expect me to point 'em out for ya”. If it doesn’t sell, I can rent it for $20 or $25 a day or $125 a week and if it’s totalled after two weeks, I have still made a profit on the thing. And I can do both, buy it in the fall for $150 when J. Dweeb Collegekid goes back to school, rent it all summer and still sell it in August for $200.
If somebody wants a new board, I send 'em to the other shop down the road. Let him think he’s making big bucks. But if it’s a used board, ok, come on in…
doc…
interestign thoughts doc.
so from your thinking…the smartest solution would be to shape your own brand of boards and hold them in your shop. therefor your making alot more money out of the deal, and still have brand new boards for all the little kiddies.
u wont get the buisness from the kids who only surf boards that are “lost”…but u werent getting them anyways.
and as for the local shaper sellin to his buddies…
i tend to do this alot, and its tough to draw the line, but you cant eb sellin boards to your closest friends for the same price u sell to joe smo. i’m sure very few people charge there best friends regular price. but again there is a line, and i find myself having to charge some full.
interesting thoughts.
do u buy the used boards stright up? most shops i know do the shitty consignment deals.
djk
Hey
And “territory” was not even mentioned. Like…company A sells to you, so company G, their main competitor, tells you they won’t sell you any boards because they are not only selling in your “territory” to another shop, but you also carry their main competitor boards. That goes back and forth until you can’t see the light between the politicians.
So Doc…what do you think of Wise Surfboards, in business since 1968, and have been carrying in stock, in the store, right now, more than 200 NEW longboards, and 100 NEW funboards and over 200 NEW shortboards.
And there are 4 other surfshops…in San Francisco!!
Well, no - my smartest solution is not to have new boards at all. I have more than enough to do with running a surf shop and on top of that my night job…so I can afford to run a surf shop.
Making my own boards, so I can sell 'em in the surf shop…
Let’s see- I have to dump all my factory defects at less than what they cost me - and I’m not a pro-grade shaper or glasser, so there will be a few of those. I have to lay out for blanks, resin, cloth, fins, etc, etc, and once they are shipped to me and in the relatively ( less than a drum of resin, less than a full roll of cloth, etc. ) small quantities I need, I’m paying out some pretty good bucks.
I’m neither a full-time, highly skilled and efficient glasser nor shaper - so I’m making what, $10-12 an hour if I’m staying competitive on what I’m charging for each operation? Call it making $50 per board for all the labor. And that’s 4+ hours per board when it’s all said and done.
Last - if I am selling my own boards, I get the grief if I sell one to Some Idiot who can’t surf can’t make it work, or if That Same Idiot busts it in the shorebreak. If my boards are not as slick and shiny as the ones in the shop down the street, my shop’s rep goes downhill. I can’t afford that.
If I use my workshop for making, say, Shaker tables in production lots of two dozen or more, I figure it on the basis of $50 per hour and a week’s worth of work per order, plus the wood per table is a helluva lot cheaper and easier to come by than blanks and surfboard-grade resin is around here. If I don’t have tables to make, I can make all kinds of other stuff out of the wood. I am a pro-grade woodworker and production guy.
My moonlighting job doing clambakes and raw bars to go pays $100 per gig and up plus tips for what’s usually a 2 hour gig. I have done better than $70/hr at that, 'cos sometimes the tips are very good and sometimes my buddy and I do a gig that’s budgeted for 3 guys and split the third guy’s pay. Sometimes I can do two or three gigs back to back and that’s a nice situation too.
Sail repair and boat canvas - $35-40 per hour , plus materials markup or nearly the same markup money for a cutting charge if the customer brings in their own material.
Ding repairs…can be a pain, but if you have six or more boards lined up to do at once, you can make a nice dollar at it.
If I am selling what was my free time, I do it 'cos there’s money in it, y’know?
Now… if you’re selling to your pals, that’s fine, but if you’re selling them for less than the local shop you supply is retailing them for, you’re giving your main customer ( the surf shop) a screwing, cutting their throat, y’know?. If you’re selling them for less than you sell the boards to the local surf shop, well, if it was me that owned the surf shop I’d be coming by to visit, with all your boards in my truck and I’d want my money back. Now.
You see, there isn’t any money in new surfboards. And I’m in the surf biz to make some money and have a good time…but you’ll notice that ‘make some money’ was listed first.
Along that line, if somebody comes in with a used board they want to sell…well, I’ll do some on consignment and some I’ll buy. You get somebody comes in, wants to sell their board and I can mark it up, resell it and make money, real good, they get paid…by check, as if there’s something kinda flaky going on I want to be able to stop payment on it. The ideal setup is somebody going back to school in late August, he spent his book money on a new board in early July and he needs to get some dough now.
I pay what I pay, so I can make a profit on the board, and he gets what he gets for it. He might get more if he sold it outright himself, yeah. Am I taking advantage of him being stupid or irresponsible? Maybe. On the other hand, he gets a check from me that will turn into real money and I’ll treat him right if he needs anything from me in the future. I have to hold onto the board all winter, I laid the dough out in August so that’s money I don’t have for stuff like shirts and baggies that I definitely make money on, let alone those things like food and heat…it’s complex.
On the other hand, there is always Some Idiot who comes in with a weird board nobody wants or a board he thinks is worth big bucks, say $20 less than he paid for it new. Or somebody who is just plain a potential pain in the tail. I’m not gonna buy that straight up, that goes on consignment at a healthy percentage 'cos I’m not gonna finance his insanity. If it sells, great, I make my percentage. If it doesn’t, well, not my problem.
I’ve been in the biz for a while… and I want to get out when I want to get out of it, not when I’ve gone broke.
doc…
sounds like u shouldve been in another buisness haha. very insightful and interesting.
i would assume a board house makes more money off longobards. u just gotta have the dough to be able to buy em. if u look at all the big shops they are actually kook stores. every big shop ive been in with a ton of boards in it, are always sold out soft core tourist stores.
dk
Quote:
Hey
And “territory” was not even mentioned. Like…company A sells to you, so company G, their main competitor, tells you they won’t sell you any boards because they are not only selling in your “territory” to another shop, but you also carry their main competitor boards. That goes back and forth until you can’t see the light between the politicians.
So Doc…what do you think of Wise Surfboards, in business since 1968, and have been carrying in stock, in the store, right now, more than 200 NEW longboards, and 100 NEW funboards and over 200 NEW shortboards.
And there are 4 other surfshops…in San Francisco!!
Exactly…or one of the board makers who gets into the surf clothes biz when the son of the founder takes over. You carried their boards, made their rep in the area, have put up the company guys on their promo tours… and your competition across the street promises them a big clothes order and they drop you like a fresh cowpat. Didn’t happen to me, but it did happen to a buddy of mine. Used to be I’d severely injure ( if not kill) to get the R______ A_____ line, but not now.
Wise Surfboards? A few things -
First, when you’re that big, you can dictate terms. The makers want you ands want to be in your shop and you can tell them how you will do it. Kinda like the old line: “Owe the bank $100 and they own you - owe the bank $10,000,000 and you own the bank”. They get a bad board from Company A and Company A sends somebody up with another board overnight. If I order a dozen boards from Company B a month ahead of when I’ll need 'em and somebody like Wise calls up and wants a dozen boards, my order is gone. I paid up front, but I’m sucking pond water - Wise may have an account with Company B and they pay after they sold the boards. In fact, what I may eventually get for my order
is what somebody like Wise returned as unsellable boards.
Second - another old line; “How do we do it? Volume!”. Let’s say I could sell 50 boards a year, give or take. Wise, well, they probably sell that many on a good day. At a better markup than I can get, 'cos they pay less 'cos of the volume they do.
And then there is something else. Let’s say I’m up the coast 50 miles from San Francisco. Joe Surfer comes in looking at boards I have on the rack, but he’s gonna take the drive to Wise too. I have to at least meet the deal they will offer him or he’s gonna take his board business elsewhere…and his shirts and baggies and wetsuit and rack business too. So, I’m screwed - I have to sell at my cost to meet the deal they can sell for and make money.
They have the market for new boards, they are known for it and they do damn well at it. New board customers go there and buy boards and that kinda expands it for 'em.
Now, I’m not knocking Wise. They are who they are, they spent a long time and a lot of effort to get there. It’s like being mad at Ron Jon’s here on the East Coast - it’s a whole different movie than what I’m doing and it’d be like being mad at the weather, it ain’t something you can fight.What I can do is make money on what I make money on.
doc…
Quote:
sounds like u shouldve been in another buisness haha. very insightful and interesting.
i would assume a board house makes more money off longobards. u just gotta have the dough to be able to buy em. if u look at all the big shops they are actually kook stores. every big shop ive been in with a ton of boards in it, are always sold out soft core tourist stores.
dk
The money you make on a longboard is about the same as you make on any other board. Why? 'Cos the guy down the street will do it and you have to compete with him.
I am in another business. Several of 'em. I couldn’t survive on what I make at the surf shop.
ronjons isnt even a surf shop anymore…90% of there monster store in cocoa is all clothes and souveniers…while the other 5-10% is boards.
not even good boards. they have a few good big name brands, and a few local brands that are good, but besides that its there ugly shitty ronjohn funboards and foam boards and stuff.
longboard house in melbourne makes me wonder how they manage to have 100 or so expensive ass boards in that store. not only that, but they got a 15,000$ balsa board with mother of pearl inlays hanging from the roof for everyone to try and knock down. they have atleast 10 boards over a grand…
how does a company like this manage to do this? time?
i dont buy anthing from stores like that, and when i didnt shape i went to the small local shops to buy off the racks, or the local guy who makes the custom boards.
now u got these popouts takin over, with computers as its tool, and honestly i think its fvcken ridiculous!!
Hey
Doc, good insights.
I got out of the surfboard business in '85, when I dived whole hat into windsurfing.
I shaped over 300 boards for Wise from '73-77, quit to persue motocross.
Worked for him retail from like '80-'85.
I’m the guy who made up “goon Tuesdays”, and quite a few other sayings.
I hope to see you surfing, in the NorthCoast Salmon area, someday. We can toss back a few and make statements on the state of surfing today. I only surf about 15 days a year, what with windsurfing, kiteboarding, tennis, snowboarding, and sometimes work.
Hope you have a stable, good, and happy life!
Ron Jon is doing like Willie Sutton did. When they asked him why he robbed banks, he looked at 'em and said " That’s where the money was".
The money is in the clothes, especially if you are big enough so that when you put in your order with Surf Clothes Company Inc. it’s big enough that they cut you a special rate. If you’re even bigger, you have Your Brand on the hang tag and you have sweatshops in Bangladesh cranking 'em out with no middleman. Economies of scale.
And Charlie Cornhusker can go back to Iowa with his cool surf shirt. And the plastic hula girl for the dashboard of his '63 GMC pickup, and the bumper stickers and… same sort of deal as South of the Border - you go to Florida, you gotta hit it.
If you have a $15,000 board hanging up, you get people in to look at it, sigh and buy a $500 board before they leave. You probably paid $5000 for it, you can deduct it and depreciate it and all kinds of fun like that. The Rich Idiot who won’t spend the money for the $15,000 board might buy the $1000+ Velzy wall-hanger. The Obscenely Rich Idiot that has to have the $15,000 board on his wall will get it for ten grand and everybody snickers after that deal is done.
If you have a hundred boards on the racks, then you probably have them on a 90-days-same-as-cash deal with the manufacturer. By the time the bill comes, you sold 'em. I’d have to pay cash up front.
The popouts and foamies? Hey, you’re selling them to greenhorns who want something for the lowest price and don’t care about anything else. There’sa a lot of them too. I wish I’d had the US Bic distributorship instead of the hyper dwarf, it’s a license to steal.
That’s surf biz…
doc…
Doc, outta curiosity where are you located again?
Cape Cod, MA
Hey, Lee
You know, I’m not that bright, but after 20+ years selling surf stuff it kinda sinks in. Well, eventually… it’s actually gelled in many ways when I have had to think about it when somebody asks a question here and I dust off the ol’ soapbox.
MX around 73 on…you might remember New England’s contribution to the circuit back then, guy called Jimmy Ellis. I got out of it before that, when I discovered every motorcycle I got on was magneticly attracted to wood.
I had, and I’ll stress the past tense, a ladyfriend out that way a couple of years ago, but I suspect it’ll be a while 'fore I get out there. Though hoist a couple for me anyhow.
Stable, never, good I hope and happy is kind of a state of mind or blindness, depends on the day, y’know?
Best
doc…
Ill agree with you the east coast especially the northeast profit margins are slim to none. material wise i know you pay 25-50% more than what I do here in so-cal, I know our shops here net 75-100 per board, it explains why we ship alot to the east coast.
Exactly, man. We’re at the end of the pipeline. Add to the price of one of your boards , say, a $10 or more double-boxing fee, $50-100 per board shipping and a 25% or more damaged board rate when they are shipped and life gets kinda non-profit.
There’s a kid selling boards he makes out of his garage here for $350 a pop and he’s actually doing quite well, numbers wise, dunno if he’s making actual money at it. Me, I wish him luck and I am real glad it’s him and not me. He’s in his early 20s, learning as he goes, and you know how that is. I’m also real glad it’s not me selling 'em, cos he is selling them to a local shop for the same price as he gets at his garage door.
Ah, for the good old days, when Iggy-finished Webers were under $200 retail here ( the airlines hadn’t priced board shipments out of sight) , free love was and I had hair…
http://fbates.home.comcast.net/xmasinjuly.jpg
doc…
doc whats your email? I have a question for you non-public