It’s kinda of funny to ask a site full of DIY types how to cut costs and then be surprised when they say DO IT YOURSELF! Haha! If you want to buy a pre made blank, get a machine to shape it, and get someone else to glass it, then you are paying for other people to do all the work - welcome to the role of a “designer”. If you want to build boards for less $$ then learn to become a “craftsman” that can do every aspect of the process, including design. If you do everything yourself, then you can sell a used board at your cost to make a new one, no matter what the quality is. That is how you will really progress as a surfboard designer. Build a new board for every session and sell it to make the next one!
Nothing wrong with your approach as a designer, but you can’t get others to work for free!
If you are really that good at design and intend to make breakthroughs in surfboard shape, then you can charge more for your shapes! Hehe…
It would take me years to become proficient with a planer to the level where I can cut a board in 45 minutes. And at the slow rate I'm building, I won't learn as much about design and what makes them work. I'd rather spend the time analyzing data, and surfing my designs, develop an understanding, and maybe have a chance at making some breakthroughs in design than in the shop mowing foam by hand.
And in those years you don't think you'd learn a hell of a lot about the boards, and how they work??
Basically, you want all the knowledge and understanding overnight, on a pc? without putting in the time. Who was it that said "beware the lollypop of mediocrity, lick it once, you'll suck it forever.
If you want to analyse date, and make desing breakthroughs, you have to devote the time, effort, and personal sacrifice to do it. Not many entrepreneurs became entrepreneurs in there spare time
It may be hokey, but some have the opinion that the time and effort put into a handcrafted item gives it special meaning. Obviously there are also a lot of people that see surfboards as a manufactured piece of sporting equipment, in which case, it matters not how it was made.
I’m a technology geek for a living. Its what I do in the real world.
In the surfboard world I find the computer software kind of useless for someone making boards as a hobby. I’ve spent a ton of time with board cad and with aku and its fun to fool with but that’s it for me. The only way I see it being useful is if you want to repeat the same board over and over and over and over and make minor tweaks along the way. That’s not what a hobby builder is doing though.
There is no substitute for your eyes and understanding how water is going to flow over the bottom and react to the curves of the rails.
…I was going to response you my opinion about cost, etc UNTIL I read the stupid thing you posted in the previous page…so, Rooster and the Aussie fellas are right
Do you think that you ll obtain great knowledge or instant zen-like mind openess, or convenient developtment of an idea, concept, etc in a few hours?
Do you think the great people around the world with fine ideas or products or artistic talent learnt or put stuff to work or create in that way?
You SHOULD and MUST have experiences, good ones, open minded ones
understand from different themes, work your arse hard in several things, READ lot of books, listen the right people, learn how to breath well, know where the dumbs are and a very long etc
have patience…then, you ll see that in a way or another the process began
so, if you think that you ll become as a designer not knowing how to fix a board or silkscreen the lams or not having bubbles in the lamination or developt an eye for the curves, test the boards in several conditions, listen surfers better than you,
KNOW THE WHY S,
understanding from the very begining…well, you are in a total mistake.
Ask one of the good ones we have here like J Phillips
i thought it was fun to take a blank and shape a board , mine took around 8 hours just to shape and maybe another 4-5 to glass / fin / sand .
post a pic of your boards , we would all love to rip them I mean take a look at them and give our 2 cents 
[quote="$1"]
And in those years you don't think you'd learn a hell of a lot about the boards, and how they work??
Basically, you want all the knowledge and understanding overnight, on a pc? without putting in the time. Who was it that said "beware the lollypop of mediocrity, lick it once, you'll suck it forever.
If you want to analyse date, and make desing breakthroughs, you have to devote the time, effort, and personal sacrifice to do it.
[/quote]
I never said it didn't! I know that guys that have shaped a thousand boards know a shit ton more than I do about boards, shapes, and designs. Nor do I claim to be an expert. Like I said, it's just something I'm interested in becoming knowledgeable about. I just figured that shaping by hand makes you a master craftsmen, not necessarily a good designer. I think that nj_surfer put it well though:
[quote="$1"]
Hey… ya gotta start somewhere, right?
… I know of no “board designer” who isn’t a shaper. Not all shapers are designers, but all designers are shapers… at least as far as I’m concerned.
[/quote]
Pretty much made me realize, gotta get more familiar with a planer and hand shape a lot more boards. If for nothing else, no one gives any respect to anyone who doesn’t!
Let’s put it in perspective.
Lets say you like music, and want to be a musician. You take a class in music appreciation - are you ready to perform? Don’t think so. That is where you start.
You next get a MP3 player, and play a few tunes you like. And since you took your music appreciation class, you know what kind of music you like. That is where you are when you play around with AKU programs.
After the MP3 player, you get Apple Garage Band, and try your hand at some sampling. That is where you are when you copy another’s design.
You get to be a musician after picking up an instrument, and practicing for endless hours.
Marso, I know you probably won’t listen to what I’m going to say next, but in the off chance you conscience is listening, STOP SELLING POORLY MADE BOARDS TO YOUR FRIENDS!!! You are hurting any chance they might have at enjoing their time in the water. DOG BOARDS SUCK!!!
If you want to learn about surfboards, go borrow a dozen old boards, take them all out in different waves on different days. Make notes on what you like and dislike about these boards. After you have the characteristics of all the boards, make plywood rocker templates of every board. Lay them one by one on top of eachother. Notice the differences. Compare the rockers with what you know about the boards. That is the start of wisdom.
Before you make a bunch of boards, go get some Home depot foam, and grind it up with your planer. Learn how to use your tools before you grind up a bunch of $80.00 blanks.
Ask yourself why you want to make boards. If you are selling them already, my guess is it might be the fame of being known as a shaper. If you are doing it as an ego stroke, you will be disapointed. On the other hand, if it is for the love of the sport, take it slow and get your basics down first.
Don’t know why everyone keeps rippin’, never said I wanted to do it overnight, nor without hard work, or without taking some licks and making mistakes. I’m not talking about becoming an overnight label or anything, I just was thinking that it would be more productive to be able to tweak one or two things at a time, and really be able to isolate variables. If I tried to hand shape the same board twice with my experience, what are the chances they would surf exactly the same? 1 in a million right? I just was under the impression (because I’m obviously kind of new at this) that it would be smarter to design something, surf it, take some notes and record some measurements and key info, then go about and change one thing at a time. That doesn’t equal overnight success. It will take hundreds of boards and lots of money and lots of surf time and studying to figure it out.
I’ve been surfing for 18 years, owned 40 boards or so in my life, and it just sucked spending a shit ton of money only to figure out every time I buy a board that it wasn’t any better than the last one I had. In the last few years I’ve really started to try to figure it out, not to shape but to build myself a decent quiver. I’ve spent hours on this forum as well as read about hundreds of boards trying to absorb what I can from what experienced shapers say. I’ve done hundreds of ding repairs, glassed all but one of my boards, and have made plenty of mistakes. Never claimed to be a know it all or tried to say I was going to become an overnight success… geez I was just trying to figure out the next move and see how everyone else gets into it. At this point in my life its WAAAY too late to do like everyone else who grew up in the trenches mowing foam or glassing for next to nothing to learn the ropes. Got bills to pay and a 50hr a week job.
I just didn’t want to reinvent the wheel, but rather learn from history and others and try to move forward.
Thanks for all the info despite some of the haters out there, I’m going to go back to the roots and hand shape and glass more boards. And think maybe just junk them instead of selling them, even though every board I have sold has been under my cost, with the disclaimer that I have only shaped a couple boards. Friends I’ve sold them to are not good surfers, and are mostly surfing pop-outs and 8 foot rhino chasers with 90’s rockers. I’m not so sure I was doing them a complete dis-service.
This is what set me off. Wanting to unload a board that doesn’t work onto someone else, so you have money to try again.
Well I did say if it didn’t work out, then I wouldn’t unload it! And the people that bought boards from me bought them after getting a chance to ride them. Is that really that bad?
Can’t is different than wouldn’t. And selling a dog board to someone who can’t tell the difference really is that bad.
marso,
do ding repair. get good and you'll do more. charge enough and youll make money. broken boards in the winter$$$ and kooks dropping their boards in the parking lot in the summer$$$
more $$$=more surfboards. more surfboards= more fun.
Marso, in the past there have been people on here with similar thoughts to you, but they were looking at it from a negative point of view ( ordering a tonne of copied boards from china etc, and flouting themselves as "shapers" ). I don't think you are one of those people at all, but when similar subjects come up, it sets off alarm bells. Again, i doubt you where thinking that, it just sounded a bit like that. Bust out the planer and learn/design away.
[quote="$1"]
Hi all................
yep...it really sucks to spend $300 on a board that's a dogg....and after you've built at least 5 boards you would think you could really make some real money building surfboards....no, not me....no real money being made over here...nope...I'm flat broke and my "bros" feel that they surf so great that I should build them boards for free.....I even get people paddling out next to me wanting a ding repair price in the water...Say what?
....no...very few people make "real" money building surfboards
check this thread in the industry section
http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/bsf-bullshit-factor
It's called the "bullshit factor"....
Blue collar guys call it "harsh reality"........maybe I spelled that wrong....that's where most of my friends live...not an easy place to be......
hang out , blend in....the first post vs. the later rebutal.........do you want to take over the world or build three surfboards per year?
Myself and my friends do every step of the process...shape / sand /glass / lam/ sand /fin install /box install/ sand/gloss and polish....and repairs...and painting and resin colors............and we "design"......
sometimes we help....sometimes we don't....................
I’m no shaper. I’ve never even touched a blank without glass on it before. The only reason I know what PU foam feels like is because I fix my own dings. But I am going to say this purely out of some basic wisdom. First learn to shape boards from a block of foam. Once you can make a board that works, shape another in a totally different design. Once you’ve made quite a couple of magic boards and all your boards work, then try and make a copy of a board.
I imagine it will be much more difficult to make an exact replica of a board, than to make a board that works wonders, once. I will personally never ask any shaper, even a professional, to make an exact replica of a board, unless it is for historical reasons, like an old hawaiian charger or something. And then, I will never expect the new board to be just like the old one. I say, if you want to learn what works and what doesn’t, you should be making a variety of different boards and use them in a variaty of different conditions, not a series of variations of the same board. Also, invest time into each board. What is 30 minutes at the price of $150 going to teach you. You complained about not being able to spend money into making more boards, well then invest more time into each board, and make a larger variety of shapes.
If someone comes to you asking for surf lessons but they cannot swim, would you first teach them to swim or to pull into a tube?
I couldn’t swim when I started surfing I only knew the doggy paddle, as I have lived inland all my life till I was 14 and by the grace of God we moved to the coast. I had to teach myself. I had no wax on my $30 board, no leash, nothing. Nobody to teach me. The first thing I did when I wanted to surf anywhere other than the shallows where I could stand, was to go to the minicipal swimming pool and practice my swimming. Every day for 8 hours a day in my underwear. (Briefs.) And when I surfed, I surfed for 8 house straight in trunks, as I had no boardshorts. At the end of each day my balls where raw, sometimes bleeding. I couldn’t walk straight but be damned I could swim 200 meters offshore and back. 4 years later I’m surfing some of the biggest waves anybody in my town is willing to surf. (Granted, my town is full of wussies and these “biggest waves” are basically only in the double overhead range, with one or two freak waves that I can’t judge the size of.)
Shortcuts make for long delays, and are full of potholes.
I read page 4 first then went back to page one
I fixed on two words ,first of all unload.then rookie.
Unload,like sell quick cheap ,infering the dont work
aspect of a first attempt surfboard build,if in fact the attempt
don’t realize your expectationsyour expectations are wy too high.
surfing 18 years every day seven hours a day
or once a month or twice one summer
in pensacola or tampa or galveston or venice italy
or one day in august at the pipeline
make for an unreadable set of creds.
The term rookie as popularized in baseball epic poems and movies
my next fixation strikes me as telling in this exchange of mores.
the Rook is a Crow of memorable note because of a parlor game I never played
with a picture of an ominous bird ,a notorious carrion of nature eating degrading
organisms…for less effort than a bustling magito… upon investigation they
eat worms and bugs and not road kill.
yet I would rather assign rookie as a small Rook.
so what we have here is a confusion of terms.
Neither rookie nor unloading dogg boards is the concern.
Fear not your growth is specific and appropriate.
the word is indeed Kuk.An all incompassing term for a surfer beyond their depth.
You by asking the question of your elders and bettors
is a carte blanche opportunity to attract the kind
of manure to make your real growth possible.
No tomato can grow without the nutrients that come from
SHIT,yes shit is #1 fertilizer .
Take this in the best spirit as you will only grow
when you can metabolize nutrients.
‘There is no such thing as a bad boy’
the guy that established boys town in the great depression said that.
To paraphrase ,‘THERE IS NO SUCH THING as A BAD BOARD’
there are only people who cant ride them.
Put the #1 hot rod pro board in the hands of a rider thirty five years ago
it would be ubrideable and completly out of control aka s[inning out
incapable of anything but being a platform to jump off at the end of every ride.
designer? Herman HEIR DoRFenStein of Klaus berg
who designed the famous cardboard box
to ship toasters from taiwan
for Ray-o-vac has dabbled in
revolutionary design surfboards
and even got a big contract.
You can try his Fabulous boards
at locations world wide .I hear they are hot items in
Kennebunkport,Aswan egypt,Mobile alabama,Natchez,
Cuthbert Indiana.
make a board surf it till it works.
when you are just a little bird
ride the boards you make
a lot.Your understanding will grow
proportionately .
…ambrose…
300 $ is still cheap.
you can make em cheaper
only after you make a bunch
from scratch and use left overs
you can write your own legend.
Wow, a lot of over sensitivity in this thread, I hope no one forgot their ‘jump to conclusions’ mat. What I see is a guy who clearly stated in the first post that he was not looking to make a business out of it, but perhaps looking for ways to lighten the entry costs so he could make more boards, who then clarified in a subsequent post about having an eye towards learning about different design elements and how they affect performance.
What I also see is a bunch of assuming replies about him wanting to be the next Cobra. That seems like a far leap. It’s a new world out there. While many are interested in creating a labor of love from raw block to glossy perfection, there are others that may be interested purely in the hydrodynamic design. Not every aerodynamicist or mechanical engineer wants to create the next Boeing or Airbus, but if they want to understand the differing flow characteristics between a delta wing and a forward swept wing, they certainly can’t purchase am F-22 for weekend testing. Hell, they may not even know how to fly.
Technology moves on, just because someone hasn’t stood knee deep in foam dust for years, lost millions of brain cells to the delicious fumes of polyester, or fashioned a stringer plane out of palm fronds and coconut husks doesn’t mean they lack the intellectual capacity to understand the science driving the flow of sea water along a down rail.