Board production costs

Ha,Ha,

You kill me Huie…")

At least this old cnt. can get it up enough to go kite in weather like we’re getting today  (see attached weather bouy readings for this morning) and not dream of glory days long gone by…

  I’m currently starting a build of a 5’10" kite-race board that will feature 40cm. long race fins and Tuttle race fin boxes, full carbon glass over  a 1 #eps core encapsulated with a core-cell and cork skin combination… etc.  …Quite frankly  concepts of boardbuilding you know absolutely nothing about  “so"shut the f##k up”…lol      Freedom of speech it is…    Like I  told you once before:   “When it comes to a battle of wit… You’ve come unarmed”

  Anyway enough of this. This ain’t about me or your love for me… I’m going kite surfing…

I’m going to miss you most Huie…")

 One post closer to freedom…

Wind Chart readings for 11:00 am. today: 

Like beef???   Hey the guy Marso originally asked how to get production costs down. He admitted he was not a pro and didn’t aspire to being a pro. He just wanted to know how to get his current costs down ($300 per board.) I think we got off track (myself included) on this deal. He sounds like a pretty nice Guy.

     So the answer to his question would be to glass it himself and stop paying to have the board machine cut. Whether he wants to go that route is up to him… I do enjoy all of the arguing though. It’s pretty funny actually. One thing about Swaylocks is that most of the arguing is pretty good natured in general. Some of the stuff Resinhead comes up with is friggin classic.

     Cynicism and smart ass comments have always been a part of the Surfers Creed. Surfers were always on the outskirts of normal living. God Bless Dale velzy and Dora.They helped start it all.

At the very least he needs to do his own glassing.  If odor is a problem with neighbors do it with epoxy. 

…hey Kiterider and Doyle, you are missing the point here; this is not what tool is better, etc

the responses here are not negative,

but too much stone faced or like that this guy has saying that he want to be a surfboards designer in an “instant-o-matic style”

no understanding that to become a designer (more if you pretend design something functional and nice) you should “breath” everything, be a sponge, understood several things in different areas, etc

 

so guys, re read again the responses

 

so I went to bed 

got up checked the waves down the street

on the wrong side of the island for this swell

phoned my two friends that I  had birthday dinner

with last night,dennis and my wife

have birthdays close enough.

so we went out at the Black Rocks 

A long kick out for me and dave

on the dale mats and dennis paddled

out his frankenstein mc Tavitch.

 

so any way it was non exisent

to the contemporary crowd

so we wer alone with a difficult 

line up in a good square acre

of wave field a ride means

a ten minute paddle back out.

so any way

my love of surfing

is not narrow

or competitive.

I wish the best to all.

May they fullfill them

selves as they will.

 

I would rather surf with

bullwinkle the moose than

most of my friends and

aquaintences.

I sure hope Sandollar

is good for everybody

this year.

Kitey rock the air

marzo make not a board 

master doyle master you tech

huie we know enough to be happy

placing a good crit on a pile o’ scat

clean you are in there.

real nice having ya’ll

here by the camp fire.

 

I shaped my mat over

and over throughout

the last two waves I caught

Stan Ross was so hip

whoda thunkit.

…ambrose…

do designers surf forever?

maybe they go on to design

chairs and shoes.

 

 

Cheers reverb. Funny, as I posted my responses, I was thinking similar thoughts about many of the other replies. What I took from marso’s questions was not a reluctance to learn the manual process or an attempt to overnight the information process, but a fairly simple question about how to minimize materials costs so that he can experiment with different designs in pursuit of understanding the design differences by being able to offset at least some of those costs through discounts, bulk buying, or selling finished products, not as a business, but to offset.

I think he got all the answers, but I also detected an underlying current, I believe sparked by two comments, ‘machine shaped’ and a mention about having someone else glass it. Those combined seemed to incite a flurry of comments about a lack of shaping credentials. I simply see someone taking a different approach and I won’t disuade anyone from whatever approach they deem works for them. I think marso more than clarified his building and surfing history. Shapers/designers/dreamers/hacks come in many forms. Surfing is a free spirited entity and one that doesn’t lend itself well to categorizing someone with an interest in building boards simply due to their method of construction.

I read every reply to this thread, and I love this place though I mostly lurk more than post. Most everyone is extremely generous with thier time and knowledge, but sometimes, just sometimes, a holier than thow, you haven’t paid your proper dues vibe gets laid on a little thick. 

 

 

 

 

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Ha,Ha,

You kill me Huie…")

At least this old cnt. can get it up enough to go kite in weather like we’re getting today  (see attached weather bouy readings for this morning) and not dream of glory days long gone by…

 

well you got me on that one  at 71 i am over all that  but luckly i still have a shaping bay and enough energy to use it.

  I’m currently starting a build of a 5’10" kite-race board that will feature 40cm. long race fins and Tuttle race fin boxes, full carbon glass over  a 1 #eps core encapsulated with a core-cell and cork skin combination… etc.  …Quite frankly  concepts of boardbuilding you know absolutely nothing about  "so"shut the f##k

cheek the archives’’   you are not as smart as you say

up"…lol      Freedom of speech it is…    Like I  told you once before:   “When it comes to a battle of wit… You’ve come unarmed”

well if you say you are better educated than me that would not be hard. i have had to work all my life no universitys just my hands and willing to listen to my elders

firstly vacum can be used in many ways as i to have been playing with it for over a decade.

core cell nah havnt bothered with it for yrs finaly you will discover even better ways

 

  Anyway enough of this. This ain’t about me or your love for me… I’m going kite surfing…

with all that hot air you might blow away.

I’m going to miss you most Huie…")

yea me to

 One post closer to freedom…

w t f ya here just for the numbers   haaa’’

Wind Chart readings for 11:00 am. today: 

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=45142

[/quote]

shit yea the wind is blowing up the gully this morning

 

cheers huie

Marso,

I’m not going to jump in on the discussion by others here, I will only offer suggestion based on my experience about how to cut costs.

Obviously, if you do all your own work start to finish you’ll save, but it takes just as long (100’s of boards) to become a “decent” (not master) laminator/sander/glosser/polisher/airbrusher/pinliner as it does to become a “decent” shaper, so this may not be for you. I understand the constraints of space to work, noise, equipment, smell, etc., and it’s not always easy for someone to glass themselves. Not to mention the cost of getting all the tools. Unfortunately, even then, NOT mass producing also sucks away $$$ because you don’t have the luxury of “doubling up” on boards during certain steps, and you waste a lot more materials.

However, one place I could really see you saving (percentage wise anyway) is on the blank. I don’t know where you’re located, but I’ve found that the big local do it yourself-er shop here sells blanks that are way higher priced compared to what I found at another supplier further North. For example, a US Blanks 6’2"P nearby is $75, but 1 hour drive North, $55. Big savings. So start shopping around.

But beyond that, try seeking out a distributor who is selling “seconds”. Often times there is nothing truly wrong with the blank (though sometimes there is something VERY wrong) and they can usually be had for 10-20 bucks. Imaging getting 4 blanks for the one you just paid regular prices for! Even if there are minor issues, they can be dealt with. The distributor/manufacturers are happy to be rid of them too.

Overall though, if you really value the process of your hobby, in the long run you’ll get more pleasure, insight, and knowledge from doing things the old-fashioned way, with your own two hands, including full shaping. I build all my boards start to finish, and it took me a long time, but my work is on par with any “professionally” built board. I’m not deluded either, as I am my own harshest critic, and a harsh critic of others as well. My sanding/and gloss and polishing is so good that I have been offered employment by glass shops (plural) after them seeing my finished boards. My costs were high when I started, buying the tools and taking a long time, but I got faster, and most of the tools don’t require replacement too often. Now my costs are materials and sweat.

It gives me great pleasure to ride my own boards. When you can look around the lineup and think “I’m the only person out here who has built their own board start to finish”, that is just so satisfying, and gives high appreciation for anyone doing it for a living too. It helps if you rip on them if you’re looking to sell BTW.

Good luck.

 

wow i have been censored twice i guess the machine does win?

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 cheers huie

Thanks for the tips Salted.  I have used some second quality blanks and those are great for what I'm doing.  Only thing is you have to wait a few weeks and really just keep checking when they come in.  Actually I have been getting to know the guys at the blank place pretty well, I suppose I could just ask them what the delivery schedule is for blanks and try to come in when the shipments come through.  Then I could just stockpile a few seconds here for experimentation. 

The point about doing the work yourself was driven hard by the guys here on the forum.  I've done one solo all the way through by hand, helped out 50% on another, and have glassed at least 6 boards now.  4 have been EPS/epoxy and the rest PU with UV cure resin to control working time and I was hoping it would help with the VOCs once it's cured.  My place smelled like resin forever though!  My boards were certainly surfable but the glass jobs were not off the rack quality.  Glasser/sanders do some miracles.   I just ordered my first pro glass job for my friends board because I didn't want to hand over a board with a crappy glass job.  I'm giving her a steal on it, I pretty much lost 50 bucks on the deal for the opportunity to make her a board and try it, and get some feedback. 

The first board I did by hand took me weeks.  I had to build templates, buy tools and equipment, figure out where to buy materials, build a shaping rack, etc.  Maybe 8 hours actual working time on the board.  I used a borrowed planer and did use it but for the most part I used the crap out of a surform.   Recently I heard guys can do it in as little as 20 minutes?  I found it hard to believe, but the guy who is cnc cutting my boards offered to go through one with me next week and watch him do one at full speed and then let me do one in his shaping room which is set up pretty much ideal.   If I could get that down to 2 or 3 hours pretty consistently, then I can totally see the benefit of hand shaping.  But I always figured that you would have to do that all day every day for a good chunk of time to get to that point.   Starting to see it's possible though, that would make it more attractive to go that route.    

mars ,you get it.

go man,borrowed shaping room.

maximum bitchin.

girls make your car smell good 

when you drive em to the beach

and back especially driving

from gardena to goleta and back.

losing 50 $  a board can be offset

with a hug and a kiss.Guys who

can make a board can become

real attractive to girls who surf.

Making boards for too many

girls at once can drive them

into a feeding frenzy.If you

are married already make

your wife a couple real good

surfboards.

…ambrose…

wives watch closely

just what girls get boards.

[

FOR KITE

 

 

nah you got me there at 71 its all gone still got my shaping bay

 

**presumtious words there  you mean i wasted more than a decade throwing boards under vacum with all types of fabric and cores
r&d for gurit  foam blowers and others
if you only new how to turn a peice of rubish 1lb e p s in to a dynamic core  or to wrap this core in the right fabrics
to get results only know being jumped on by the trendos
but i doubt they still dont have the core i speak of

corcell nah look elswhere went out with button up boots
cheek the archives i have left a trail
if you ask kindly in private i may even be able to give you a few pointers

as i have mentioned here in the past polyurathane  such as surfblanks pink with vacumed lightweight fabrics**

are turning out rather well we done this yrs ago withe the c d d tech

**i now see it becoming popular with orange foam over your side its all good  not saying i am first with anything just saying i have had good look in the door
**

 

 

when i comes to vacum it is you sir that has come unarmed

 

me to

 

wot ya just about a number?

 

 

crank er up to 25 hgs   good for the 1lb stubby holder  haaa’’

 

cheers huie

]

Iʻm kinda with the pit bulls on this one; if you are going to build boards [ hopefully for yourself and not to be pro] you gotta start with a shop space where you can make noise with your planer and glass boards without polluting your neighbors; without a shopspace you got zero; then itʻs basic tools, the two biggest ones being a planer and a variable speed sander then a ton of smaller tools to do all the little stuff; a shop, tools and some rudimentary skills and thatʻs the starting point; the rest is all experience and building each board better; as you build more craft your costs will come down but to start from scratch you gotta pay to play; just a fact of life for those of us using plastic petroleum products…like I mentioned before, recycle old boards for practice…  I.just did…foam, fins and fcs plugs…I,ll post pics when finished…