I've heard many say that hull boards are the fastest shape.A lot of this has to do with having no tail rocker right?
Is there any other boards out there that have no tail rocker? If you just want to stand up and go fast down the line
on a mushy wave and maybe do a long sweeping cutback ,would a single-fin with no tail rocker ,with or without some V in the tail,
or slighly hulled bottom be the go to board? Or even a tri-plane thingy maybe?
“Fast” means different things to different people. Trim speed, dropping-in speed, paddling speed, big waves, small waves, hollow waves, point waves, beach break waves, reef waves all need different kinds of rocker curves to deliver the performance requested. The curve needs to fit the boards length, outline, foil and fin set up also. There is no one formula.
“Hulls” have tail rocker but it is usually between 1 and 2 inches and it is more like lift than curve. Old school fish have even less tail rocker than “hulls”.
On the wave you describe, you might like a 7- to 8-foot “hull”-like rocker, flat bottom with a single fin and down rails with a tuck. Keep some curve in the rear third of the outline to help you break trim and cut-back on a flat face. How 'bout a 6- to 7-foot fish with even less rocker, double foil keels with no cant or toe-in? That would be my personal call.
V and Tri planes can make a board seem “fast” if surfed aggressively and correctly. You can’t just stand and go with these features unless the wave is steeper or has down-the-line push like a point wave.
NO! no other boards…period!
When I was a kid, my dad, uncles, brothers and cousins emphasized “finding the trim spot”. I didn’t understand anything about rockers, and from the looks of other peoples boards they didn’t either. Things have changed since then. i still hate hulls, and performance boards now are so much better than they used to be. Hulls are dull, and I go by and around them at speed, but I just don’t stand there waiting for my hull to trim out. Lower rockers are fast because it takes more resistance to turn them and highly rockered boards will suck into the face, all things considered if never put on a rail. If you never turn and just go straight, ride a hull. Hulls are for nuts, it protects and insulates them from how poorly they surf; nonetheless, sometimes the turtle wins the race.
You can do every board without rocker. Today I surfed a 4’8’’ wooden funboard with zero tail and 2’’ nose rocker. It works and is fast, but I really had problems doing hard turns. I need a bit of tail rocker, less than most boards have. But I loose too much agility if I go under 1 1/2’’ and that sucks more if you have speed, but can’t really keep it through a turn. For me increasing the planing area between your feets works better than going with less rocker. All on sub 6’ and small waves. On bigger waves I haven’t played around that much.
Thanks Pat.
I dissagree with everything you say Ghettorat. On the other hand your Dad Uncle,Brothers, cousins sound like cool guys.
Hey G-Rat, That's some funny stuff! "Hulls are for nuts". Classic! You know as well as I that on a lined up wave, a hull will project on turns and really move. They can't be compared to a HPSB. Too different of styles. For someone who wants to surf frantically and never stop to go with the wave, a small skatey board is the choice. Different strokes Bro. "To each his own taste, said the dog".....
Now that is crazy! How much flip is there in the nose?
hey - that woden fun board sounds great - any more info, photos?
They were all like that untl 1970, when Bahne, Dif, Hynson, Brewer, and perhaps Herbie developed the full length ‘breakway’ downrailers introducing ‘natural rocker’.
I know, because I had just gotten out of high school (grad. early in January) and started my first surfshop at age 17. We sold Bahne’s and William Dennis Surfboards from a hole in the wall shop on Tecolote Street in old town Goleta. The Hysnon Models were full length downrailers and every time my partner Joe Mickey and I paddled out we would get the question
“doesn’t it dig rails”?
We introduced these boards to the Santa Barbara area. Bradbury, Yater, Wilderness, the William Dennis’s we sold…EVERYONE… had dead flat tails, and unless you were going Mach 4, you could not move forward and execute a successful cutback.
We sold a ton of them inthe first year and Bradbury’s crew that ruled Rincon ALL (with the exception of Dicky Nelson) switched to Hynson downrailers.
That left everyone scrambling to catch up.
The boards had a wild and wonderful sensation of gliding (planing) with speed on top of the water where all flat tailed bellied front end boards just threw on the brakes or outright died.
That picture you have with the cambered S deck foil is pure history. I shaped those. It’s amazing how well we rode them not knowing the future!
Mr. John Mellor, Nice picture tells a thousand words, thank you. I'm also curious, how many inches of nose flip is there on that flat rockered Yater and how many inches back does the nose flip go tangent with the flat bottom, Deadshapers comments are great, have you ridden the Yater? How did it go for you? thanks
Hi GTFD -
The board has approx. 7" of nose rocker that starts approx. 33" back.
The board was given to me recently and I have not ridden it. I have ridden similar boards (unsure of actual tail rocker specs) and found that they weren't impossible to cutback. The outline curve, belly and small fin makes them less stiff than they might appear.
I remember as a kid with my 7'10" Morey-Pope forward vee trying to ride that cove south of Hammond's. The hot guys up at Hammond's were all riding boards very similar to the Yater and were dropping in late, cranking hard bottom turns up in to the lip... as the boards went vertical above the lip, they'd pivot on the tail, and do reentrys with the lip.
Seems like the old Hanalei Kaui Hanneppee/Country surfboards of maybe the late '60's. Made expressly for Hanalei Bay, where you need some speed to make the sections.
Lots of boards I made turned really well with a dead straight tail for 18", then starting a rocker. Fast and especially fast off a bottom turn, great rebound. Need eggy templates.
Reno Abellera also made some flip tip boards with almost flat tail rocker, for about 20" from the one's I saw.
These are awesome pix!
Point of clarification on my comment. Yes, we could cut these back quite well, also hit the lip doing "rollercoasters’ and such. It was the moving up forward like you would to trim a long board that pretty much locked you in to what you were doing. Look at the fins on these boards and they were such a key element to allowing us to do the stuff we did. The ones that had some vee in the tails had 'rail rocker, and were generally looser for it. Release… due to the raised tail rail line.
The cambered decks… snow ski mentality.
These boards WERE fast.
Ironically some of the later ones that had lost the camber but were 3-1/2" thick over the chest… well, we started buying them for pocket change during the 80’s… $5, $10, $20… a bit more for the really primo ones. Then we would reinforce the decks, drop in a mast track and foot strap inserts and sent them off to guys in the Columbia River Gorge.
Looking back at that, it was very profitable, but what a whore I was for doing it.
Wow, good stuff.
Didn't know too many guys converted surfboards to windsurfers.
In '84, I converted a SteveColetta 9'6" x 21" full gun by adding mast track and footstraps. It was PeeWeeBergerson's (old SanFrancisco legend) Wiamea gun which he didn't use. Double 9oz glass, 3/4 length 6 oz deck patch, double 9 bottom with full 3" rail laps.
It lasted maybe 2 weeks, then stress fractured accross the bottom in a hundred spider webs, taking out the entire deck outside CoyotePt on a windy day. Those windsurfers are pretty strong, while gun surfboards pretty weak.
Welcome back LeeD.
Thanks, I've been almost banned in every other forum, so I thought I'd try here again.
Problem with surfing is, once you become a surfer, no matter what else in life you try, surfing is in your blood.
"Thanks, I've been almost banned in every other forum, so I thought I'd try here again."
Hi LeeD - I'd like to welcome you back as well. I've referred to some of your posts while you were gone. Your technical advice on design always made sense to me... like the post on balance of a gun design. I fully agree for instance that a tiny pulled in tail sinks in the face and makes anything but a late take-off nearly impossible. One of many gems.
