Epoxy boardmaker Boardworks appears to have pulled its forum from its site altogether - the last few posts were dominated by discussions about buckled boards,delams and leaky leash plugs, sure no connection tho…
gcs, Boardworks may be good for a few shapers to get their work noticed by a few people but I, personally, feel that this whole new era pop-out mentality is a crock foisted on the uninformed to boost profits. Personally, again, I feel that there is no “Craftmanship” that goes into the production of these boards whatsoever. Though I do have some friends that ride these pop-outs, you can put any of them up against a hand shaped and glassed board - even if they both share the same logo - and feel the absence of clean soul in all of them. They just feel like plastic - pop-outs. Even though it’s using epoxy technology, go look at a hand shaped Greg Loehr epoxy (for example) virsus boardworks and you’ll instantly see soul vs. pop-out. Shapers are probably the most underpaid/underappreciated artisans of our time and they deserve all they can get in this world, including profits from their proven designs from Boardworks et.al. but, there is nothing better than a board shaped by a master specifically for you and your surfing style and glassed to your specs by another craftsman unless, it’s one you shape - and glass - for yourself for those same reasons. Just my personal thoughts because I never knew there was and could see no need for a site devoted to pop-outs - Pete
Shapers make a ridiculous profit margin, if that continues the only shapers will be people content to earn meager livings and have no free time. It is asinine. Shaping machines don’t really help either - they boost cost without saving much time. Pop-outs, however, allow a “name brand” shaper to earn money without running the planer, money for their ideas. It is the best thing going for a shaper. You may not like it as a surfer - don’t buy it. At this rate it will be a long long long time before locally shaped boards go away. But I am happy some shapers are able to make a little more $$ - they deserve it.
I think most of the shapers that jumped on the pop-out bandwagon have lost what ever credibility they had/have. Pretty much a last ditch effort. Sad.
It seems the era of maximum profits are the ultimate objective in all of this together with the corporatisation of industry.I am a technician with hands on skills and problem solving skills in the arae of automation process conrol and I have continually seen my trade area deminish over the years with bean counters and profits being of more importance than plant safety and proper maintenance.I have seen gas plants explode because proper maintenance procedures being ignored profits being the priority.There is no recognition for trade skills anymore to the point where unskilled people get paid not for their skill level but their production levels. Skills are on the decline and I would never encourage my son or daughter to do an apprenticeship in a trade area because you dont get the return for the effort.
…there’s nothing like a Hollow W.A.V.E. ! …history…those who donot learn from it…are doomed to repeat it.Herb
Boardworks is no more… Plant shut down because it cost too much to modernize the plant to produce consistent quality.
Blakestah, Shapers benifit in no way from supporting the popouts. They have NO GARANTEE that their designs will continue to pay them. If the company gets bought out or they simply decide to put different labels or the same label and simply quit paying. Shapers themselves could band together and start a surfboard rating system and raise their prices where they should be and acomplish the same thing. They could refuse to cave in to pressure from magazine stroking their egos and all charge what they are worth. Pull their boards out of shops and go direct to the public with their own showrooms. The surfshop is no longer tied to the shaper anyway, they are tied to the clothing hype. It’s all about money now, which is the only reason the popouts have made a dent and the shapers who have given them credibility have hurt themselves in the longrun. Harbor did the right thing and others should follow. You want to help surfboard shapers get a real surfboard and not a kuk stick. Same goes for the chinese crap made by people who don’t even surf. No soul,No karma, just money. Frankly, I don’t like the production shaped boards much better, but at least a human that surfs probably finished them. Man I just looked out my window and thought I saw a pig flying.
I know they have had their low times, times when they either did hang it up or gave it real serious thought. But look out there at the “legends” that are still doing it. The thread that binds all the great ones that last through the test of time is “consistent quality”. Thank you Skip Frye, Noll, Hynson, Gordon,Copeland…That just begins to scratch the opening list, you jump in and complete the list that could go on all night. The point is that through all the phases, ups, downs, tech changes, we still ride, for the most part, the same basic board I started on in the 60s, only infinitely better and more beautiful. They’re still hand made and we still idolize the gurus that make them. Many of the guys that were cranking away in small garage shops are still out there shaping today. They’ve survived because they are good and because people ultimately demand a masterpiece. No matter how far we stray when the fence is down, we usually come back to our own familiar pastures. With all the new fads, pop-outs, sweatshop made boards, the guy that does really good work will keep on doing it, if for no other reason than: “Cuz it’s just what I do”. My fave: “DO YOUR WORK WITH YOUR WHOLE HEART AND YOU WILL SUCCEED, FOR THERE IS SO LITTLE COMPETITION”. I smile at the foreign made boards and those who buy them. In a free country, people can and should buy whatever product they desire. Give em slack, it’s America! But, I applaud the little guy, who even though he can’t afford it, he holds out for a masterpiece board shaped by a guy who “cares”. He holds out, sucks it up, and is willing to pay that guy just a portion of what he really deserves for creating a piece of art - an object that gives pride and even identity to the new owner of that product! That’s America, Surfing, and Aloha all mixed into what we’re all about! Demand quality, do your work like it matters (cuz it does), and stay on it!
The technology is fine, it has been used for a long time in other marine applications. The shapes are fine (or can be), many of them are made by some of the best shapers in the business. Now, I can go get Bob Miller to shape me a board, and he’ll spend a few hours shaping it by hand, and I’ll get a good board. Or, I can buy his Boardworks shape in his shop, he won’t lift a finger to labor on it, I’ll get the same shape (or better/more consistent), and he’ll get the same amount of money. Which of these scenarios helps Bob more? The one where he runs the planer and makes money, or the one where he doesn’t run the planer and makes money? Either way I get his designed shape. Shapers are also businessmen, and have their own perogative to decide how they may benefit themselves and their shaping. And, if one of them wants to contract through Boardworks, I really have no problem with that. The fact that quite a large number of top shapers have taken an interest in lending their designs to the new technology tells me that it is being viewed as a legitimate market for them. Now, all my boards are hand-shaped polyester resin PU foam boards, most of them custom orders, so I’ve been supporting the small local guys. But I wouldn’t hesitate to support Bob Miller if he had a molded board that suited me well. You can note that for me, Bob Miller is also a local guy. http://www.blakestah.com/surf/
What makes you think you are getting the same shape?? Hand shaped is the only way to go…if you have ever worked in boats or pools(glass) you know how “true” the molds are after a few hundred parts.They are only as “true” as the person repairing them…not to mention warping and twisting.But to each his own…if you want a pop out…go getum…me…not a f-in chance…peace and waves… http://www.savesymrnainlet.org
yeah…sure it’s easy to ask who it “benefits”. usually when someone is benefitting it’s at someone else’s cost. that’s why it’s called benefit. “SACRIFICE” for a cause. Make them lazy, what the hell. It’s over for them over the hill gang.
Herb, Would love talk to you!! Give me a call at 760-268-1066 and lets discuss the Hollow WAVE! Aloha Thane Pope-Pope Bisect Travelboards!
My point was that I know someone involved in Boardworks. He made the blank for the mold. He shows me his shape. He will also handshape me a board if I ask him to. He is selling the Boardworks boards he designed in his shop. He is profitting in multiple ways no matter how I get a board from him (also runs his own glassing shop). Now, you may be opposed because some corporation runs the fabrication facility, but a good shaper is happy and profiting from his involvement with Boardworks. And he is quite happy to sell his own shapes as produced by Boardworks. I’m certainly not going to tell him how to shape a board…and if you have needs different from the masses, you aren’t going to find a molded board that suits you anyway…but for a lot of people the epoxy-laminate boards will work well, and the shaper will profit well in a lot of cases. Heck, anytime a shaper profits on a board without laboring on it, he is raising his income…and if a shaper is getting screwed by Boardworks, he should re-think his business involvement with the company. http://www.blakestah.com/surf/
I hope some of the long time shapers like Yater, Aipa, Haut, make a killing on these type of boards. They deserve to make money and there is nothing wrong with making a ton of money. I don’t buy them because they look, feel,and smell funny. They look fake or something. They are not beautiful like a hand shaped board(even my own). A board should ride bitchen and be beatiful to look at and touch. I have friends who ride them(no, there not kooks)and lovc em. Just my humble opinion, of course. But, I was the last surfer in California to buy a thruster.
heres my point with specific reference to longboards: What out of the following is ‘WORTH’ more; (1)A custom shaped and hand made board especially for you by a person who has spent years perfecting his/her surfboards. It is done with all the passion of a devoted man/woman to the art. It will be customised to your surfing style, ability and weight/size. (2) A mass produced version that is guaranteed to be slightly more durable(this has been argued) is a solid colour (yuk) with no delicious wooden stringer but does offer a weight saving. It will not be customised to your surfing style, ability or size. I believe that we pay far too little for number (1) and far too much for number (2). In my world order the first would be twice the price of the second. Thats what it is worth.
I don’t think that it makes much of an impact on sales or market appeal as to what is debated here. A lot of board builders bad mouth these companies for expanding surfboard sales away from the backyard. The craftsman who involved themselves in this way deserves to make it of break it. If buyers are unhappy w/ their purchase they shouldn’t make the same mistake twice. I have witnessed countless rip-off / bad deal surfboards from guys who use polyester/ polyurethane construction both here in the USA and overseas. So make your boards the best you can, or buy them from your local shaper / glasser and be happy. Randy French won’t hurt you. I could call a lot of boards made around here pieces of crap, or way on the learning curve, so don’t harp on the moldies so much, they are not hurting you.
is this really you Thane??? It’s me-Matt.What’s shaking down your way? how’s the family and your dad?
…Just had a versed conversation with Thane Pope. …The BI-SECT group is/has been making hollow boards in bi-sect(which you may know) and is planning on making a one piece job(not a bi-sect) out of carbon fiber,as well as venturing into other types of Molded boards.We discussed a bit of ,“molded board” history ,and I told him my experiences with them.In some cases I havenot had the time under my feet to give a complete analysis to some,but over all, a knowledgeable review. …T. had concerns about my pop-out comments,and I apologized for some past,harsh stabs at that particular part of the industry.I’ll bet it made them be more concerned with there product reliabilities,as well as performance. …Thanks Thane for the invite,I’ll keep in touch. …There’s enough room in this ,“SURFING WORLD” to support everything ,“GOOD”.Meaning,product reliability,Life of prod.,appeals,costs,and most importantly performance. …THERE IS NO ROOM FOR JUNK and money hungry business types that have no interest in the advancement or growth of the sport. …I told T. about the pistol revolution that started in the 80s with composite plastic bodies.They were laughed at,talked down,called names like,“Tactical Tupperware”.Now days,All the major and most of the smallarms mfgs in the world today are making composite body pistols and rifles.Molded,rather than casted and milled.I still prefer a all steel pistol as my sidearm,but the Glock and other quality composite body firearms have a place in there world,even if I don’t like them for my own personnal use.I have friends that would use nothing else.Herb .ps…before we get to the sellout jokes from our friend ab-user dave,T. and I spoke only as like minded builders,designers,and surfers,I wish him all the best!
New improved Spitzer no-sect model: the pistol. An all-carbon hollow pistol fish. Available Supercharged or Crossfired. [smile] Thanks for the update! Rob Olliges